Why were Asuma and Kurenai so lackluster compared to the Masters?

jesusus

Base Believer
In Part 1, they seemed to all be in the same boat, top of the class Jonin capable of leading the new rookies. They were peers from the same gen. Then both got overshadowed by the Masters in terms of feats, portrayal and plot relevancy.

Kinda sad.
 

JJ Baloney

Fite me, Michael Jackson! >:I
They were together too often on dates that they neglected their training, I dunno. Bad luck???
 

Zensuki

Sasuke > your fav
No they weren't. Kakashi and Gai are exceptions to the Jounin class. They're kage level.
Akatsuki are full of Kage level ninja so it makes sense Asuma and Kurenai would find it hard.
 

New Folder

Well-Known Member
they didn't get time to show their abilities.

Heck, Kurnai didn't get anything except for that one moment of a "fight" against itachi in part 1... :oldshrug

it's not only them, any character, that is not given enough time, won't look impressive either... :catshrug
 

Arthas

Anko's Lover
In Part 1, they seemed to all be in the same boat, top of the class Jonin capable of leading the new rookies. They were peers from the same gen. Then both got overshadowed by the Masters in terms of feats, portrayal and plot relevancy.

Kinda sad.

@italics: Yes they were and even are capable of leading rookie teams.

@Bolded: Where did you get this random idea?

First just because all four were team leaders does not mean all four were equals. Kakashi was regarded as the number 1 jounin of Konoha and a ninjutsu specialist. Gai was about his equal and a Taijutsu master to boot.

Both of them had been jounins for years by that time.

Kurenai? She might be a Genjutsu specialist but she only became a jounin just before Part 1 (See chapter 43, Asuma's comment during Ibiki's chuunin test ).

Asuma meanwhile gave a reasonable performance as against an S-Rank Akatsuki member who are stronger then most jounins which means he is a *good* jounin but not a top tier one.
 

Ultrafragor

Well-Known Member
Kurenai took an arrow to the uterus, making it hard to do any fighting in shippuden era.

Asuma tried, but ended up jobbing against Hiden and then lost because of an unlucky strike (hidan wasn't even sure he'd made it back inside his circle)

So, the reason they didn't look so good was because Kishi actively made decisions that left them seeming lackluster next to their peers.





And don't even act like Gai and Kakashi are on the same level. That's the biggest load of bullshit.

Without Kamui, Kakashi is shit compared to Gates Gai, but Kishi really had the nerve to let Kakashi act like he wasn't impressed until 8th Gate came out.




There's also Kakashi deferring to Shukaku Nara when he was recommended for Hokage and say Shukaku should do it instead.

So, as far as the manga goes, Kakashi is just the jonin with the longest career, but is still in the same boat as the other Konoha jonin.

It's fanwank tiers that put different jonin in different tiers.
 

Foxfoxal

Well-Known Member
What jonins? Kakashi and Guy? one had 100xtimes more screen-time and buffs and the other was made OP since the beginning.

They were fine, the problem is the only real fight Kurenai had and the two Asuma had were against an Akatsuki.

Kurenai had a bad match-up against Itachi and then Kishi decided to take her out, there is hardly anything to judge her.

Asuma was used to reveal Hidan's ability, the way Kakashi was used against Tendo Pain, the only difference Kakashi was revived, they were never made to be stronger than an akatsuki other than Guy.
 

Gex

Senior Enchanter of the Minrathous Circle of Magi
Remember that time when Kurenai tried to use genjutsu against Itachi? Yeah. Me too.
 

Ejenku

Zero_Smoke
Kurenai and Asuma just lacked anything to pull them out the Jounin class. If Gai lacked gates and Kakashi lacked Sharingan they would be in the same boat as them.
 
Especially Kurenai

Naruto suffered from the same problem as Bleach, too many characters.

Yet it's amazing how with such a small cast. Dragon Ball still only ever really focuses on 2 characters haha.
 

Cichy

Well-Known Member
Comparing them to Guy and Kakashi is really unfair, since those two are supposed to be kage tier...

Looking objectively Asuma and Kuranai are both very solid.

Asuma served in a elite jonin organization, was able to no-diff nine chuunins with just taijutsu and could put a scrach on Kisame. You can argue that he lacks versitality, but in the anime his set of jutsu was extended.

Kurenai despite her lack of presence was hyped as the best genjutsu master in Konoha and that alone should put her relatively high.
 

Ayala

The key to understanding myself
If you look at it, not even in pt 1 were they seen on the Masters level. Kakashi in his own had to step in to save both of them, who looked helpless and incompetent in the face of the Akatsuki. From there on, they literally can't contribute a damn thing, they just stand there sweating and getting on Kakashi's way.

Even since they were little, it was made clear Kakashi was on a whole another level compared to the kids of his age, and Gai who's on his level follows.
 

Dano

Back to basics
Asuma was kinda good in part 1 when he rescued Shikamaru, but he was below Kakashi since Kakashi was hyped as the best jonin out there. Asuma did terribly against Kisame and had to obey Kakashi regarding Itachi. Asuma was just used to showcase how strong Akatsuki were, to introduce kind of danger for the readers.

Kurenai had it harder: 1) She was female in Kishi's manga. 2) She was recently a jonin (see chapter 43). 3) She's not a main character in Kishi's manga. 3) Her only specialty is genjutsu and she's paired against Itachi, who is one of the strongest genjutsu users inside Narutoverse. 4) She became a love interest in Kishi's manga. 5) She got pregnant, and maybe she got a maternity leave which made even worse for showcasing her skills. 6) She got a kid, which made her nerf even more in shonen mangas (Kishi specially). Kurenai is lucky she's alive, she has every condition of being killed if Mirai were MC.
 
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t0xeus

hi it's me t0x
They were impressive given the limited time on panel they were given

Especially Kurenai

Naruto suffered from the same problem as Bleach, too many characters.

Yet it's amazing how with such a small cast. Dragon Ball still only ever really focuses on 2 characters haha.
Kubo handled the character variety actually well tho
In Bleach, it is actually a good thing about it that it has so many characters since they all had plenty of screentime
Like if Fake Karakura Arc was written by Kishi, he would just offpanel most fights except perhaps the 3 Espada fights and then timeskip to Ichigo arrival
Meanwhile Kubo actually showed each and every single fight
And that is after a whole arc of side characters having full onpanel fights in Hueco Mundo

So yeah

Kishi is dogshit in terms of handling having many characters in his work
 

Arthas

Anko's Lover
They were impressive given the limited time on panel they were given


Kubo handled the character variety actually well tho
In Bleach, it is actually a good thing about it that it has so many characters since they all had plenty of screentime
Like if Fake Karakura Arc was written by Kishi, he would just offpanel most fights except perhaps the 3 Espada fights and then timeskip to Ichigo arrival
Meanwhile Kubo actually showed each and every single fight
And that is after a whole arc of side characters having full onpanel fights in Hueco Mundo

So yeah

Kishi is dogshit in terms of handling having many characters in his work

You really can't please everyone.

I remember on Bleach Forums, most people were complaining about 'Filler Fights' and how the arc kept dragging on and on because of the. (They all changed their tune when their own favorite characters were fighting though).
 

Ruthless Tsuchikage

Well-Known Member
Probably because they were always meant as very minor characters. Kurenai has an additional excuse in that she's a rookie. During the original chunin exams its been mentioned she only became a jonin fairly recently.

And I guess there's also the fact that Jonin's just aren't particularly powerful in the grand scheme of things. Sure officially their rank is about the most elite one can be without being a Kage but the strength difference between a Jonin and Kage is very, very steep. Kakashi in particular is supposed to be the strongest Jonin for a long time and he makes good on that but his role in the story requires there to be many people who are stronger than him or at least on his level. He must be strong enough to handle the henchmens, the second in commands and just about anything below the absolute top tier villains but he must be weak enough for there to be tension and to ensure team 7 faces actual danger. This ensures there's also a large pool of candidates to outclass the typical Jonin.

And then you have less official positions like Sanins, Jinchuriki's Akaksuki members and such which all hover around Kage level. Jonins aren't exactly fodder but in the grand scheme of things they rapidly got outclassed.
 

t0xeus

hi it's me t0x
You really can't please everyone.

I remember on Bleach Forums, most people were complaining about 'Filler Fights' and how the arc kept dragging on and on because of the. (They all changed their tune when their own favorite characters were fighting though).
Really? :hm Which fights were filler?
 

Draco Bolton

Well-Known Member


If Asuma did like Boruto dad said, if he did like Kakashi/Gai, he would be as stronger than them. Kurenai has to stop making him forget about training.

And it's the same with Kurenai indeed.
 

Architect

A Minato stan from Minatostan
Asuma smoked too much and Kurenai spent too much time hanging out with Asuma, being a victim of passive smoking.
 

savior2005

Well-Known Member
Because Kakashi is a genius and Gai is an extremely hard worker.

Asuma and Kurenai have neither Kakashi's talent nor Gai's heart/hard work. However, they are definitely not virgins whereas the same cannot be said about the masters.
 

Punished Kiba

World's #1 Kiba Inuzuka Fanboy (犬塚キバ)
imo, Asuma and Kurenai are just extra proof that Kishimoto never planned for the other rookie teams.

However, at some point, Shikamaru became Kishi's fav and Asuma became a plot device for Shika's development. Even, Kurenai's remaining panel time was for shika's story.....instead of with her own fucking team:catflip
 

Arthas

Anko's Lover
imo, Asuma and Kurenai are just extra proof that Kishimoto never planned for the other rookie teams.

Kishi never really planned too much period. He often stated that he had an beginning and ending planned out and the middle was more on an arc by arc basis.
 
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