Why is the sphere the perfect form manipulation?

dregoth

Cooking Genius
If Naruto managed to produce a spining cone....rasengan would be much deadlier.

If Rasengan had the shape of a cone it would have less rotational energy (just 10% less assuming they have the same "mass" and rotate at same speed) and it would be usable like Kimimaro's attack, but to a much greater devastating effect since chakra > bones.

If rasengan had the shape of cylinder it would have 10% more spin energy.

Or thinking the reverse way, if rasengan had a conical form it would require less energy to rotate at the same speed as a sphere. How come Yondaime, Kakashi and Jiraiya didnt think about it?
 
I think it involves the multidirectional spin. Notice that was the difference between the balloon popping and it not.
 
PDQ is right, yeah.
its "perfect" because its rotating super fast in all kinds of crazy directions but stil maintains the spherical, orderly shape
 
Its perfect because it is absolute power in an absolutely controlled form. Power pushed into the most basic form.
 
Because sphere's are equal in size all over. So the power is equal all over. So while it rotates, it grinds down the opponent. And you would have to hit the opponent exactly for full effect. With Rasengan, the power is equal, so you could be a little off, and it would still have great effect.
 
Actually, I'd think a sphere is the most efficient form. ..you can see that the chakra is spinning in every direction at once. The balloon is deformed equally in each of those directions, so essentially you're pushing out from a central point. Only with a sphere is the distance from the centre to the edge equal in every direction.

And the Rasengan isn't perfect spatial recompositon, merely the most advanced form anyone has ever achieved. Theoretically someone could come up with something even more complex, but given it took the Fourth three years to develop, that's not very likely.
 
Frame 3, Kakashi:
四代目は“形態変化”を最高レベルにまで高めた状態を作り上げた…それが螺旋丸だ
The Forth Hokage produced a form of "spatial recompostion" of the absolute highest level... That being the jutsu "rasengan"

Absolute highest level, it sounds like there is nothing that can go higher so I would assume it is perfect.

The sphere thing makes sense, equal distribution of power in every direction, if you changed it into like a cone or something you would have to decrease the balance in certain areas and it wouldn't be perfect anymore :eek:
 
The sphere of Rasengan with chakra swarming all directions means the power is equal in all directions. A cone would make it only lethal if hit from one point. I also liken the condensing and rotating the chakra of Rasengan to the crushing of an atom. To me Rasengan is like a mini-atomic chakra explosion in his hand.
 
In geometry, the sphere is the perfect form. It's the most compact, complete form. And if applied to an offensive ninjutsu attack like rasengan, we could say in theory that the power could be released in any direction at any time since it's a constantly spiraling sphere.
 
A sphere is like a circle. a circle has no sides, it is perfect.
A circle has 360 degrees. Every point is equal to every other point.

"The study of the circle goes back beyond recorded history.
The invention
of the wheel is a fundamental discovery
of properties of a circle."
 
brucelee said:
A sphere is like a circle. a circle has no sides, it is perfect.
A circle has 360 degrees. Every point is equal to every other point.

"The study of the circle goes back beyond recorded history.
The invention
of the wheel is a fundamental discovery
of properties of a circle."
You could also add that a sphere is the only thing that has perfect symmetry, since it's symmetrical around a point and not a line or plane.
 
Basically, there is no weak point on a sphere. The only effective area on a cone for impact is the point. The chakra has less room to move around in the main attack area so it is less powerful. Since the rasengans power comes from the spin of the chakra and the shape is the same everywhere, it will always have the same power no matter where. So while the point would be effective, the size of it severely limits it.
 
Spheres require the least amount of energy to maintain, geometrically speaking. Adding corners and verticies increase order which increases it's amout toward entropy, which increases the amount of energy required to stave off entropy.

But it's not just the spherical shape, it's the way that the random rotations are contained within the perfect shape of a sphere.
 
It isn't THE perfect shape manipulation. It is just has the highest shape manipulation level of it's shape, and so far, it's higher than every other shape, too. If you progressively increased your shape manipulation level, it wouldn't end up as the Rasengan.
 
It isn't. In terms of form Chidori is far better.

However the further away it is fom the body the harder it is to manipulate the chakra. The Sphere keeps it close and strong and allows for a maximum grinding area when it connects.

$5 says the form will change for the final version.
 
Goku said:
Frame 3, Kakashi:
四代目は?形態変化?を最高レベルにまで高めた状態を作り上げた?それが螺旋丸だ
The Forth Hokage produced a form of "spatial recompostion" of the absolute highest level... That being the jutsu "rasengan"
Absolute highest level, it sounds like there is nothing that can go higher so I would assume it is perfect.

The sphere thing makes sense, equal distribution of power in every direction, if you changed it into like a cone or something you would have to decrease the balance in certain areas and it wouldn't be perfect anymore :eek:

Please don't disregard what was said in the manga, in terms of form chidori is not better, Raikiri isn't better either, the reason they can have a little advantage over Rasengan is because it adds the Element with the form.

How the new jutsu will look is beyond me :eek:
 
Seiko said:
Well, I see a pattern there. :amuse

Welcome to 2006.

The word Naruto can refer to anything with spiral imagery. Naruto is the name of a town in Japan famous for it's wirlpool. Naruto is also spiral patterned food that goes on Ramen. Uzumaki means spiral. The Konoha leaf symbol has a spiral, as do the Chunin Flak jackets and the little thingy on the left sleeve of Naruto's costume.

Finally we have Rasengan, not to mention Kaiten and others.
 
The Pink Ninja said:
Welcome to 2006.

The word Naruto can refer to anything with spiral imagery. Naruto is the name of a town in Japan famous for it's wirlpool. Naruto is also spiral patterned food that goes on Ramen. Uzumaki means spiral. The Konoha leaf symbol has a spiral, as do the Chunin Flak jackets and the little thingy on the left sleeve of Naruto's costume.

Finally we have Rasengan, not to mention Kaiten and others.

...which is the logical answer to this thread.
 
the sphere is good because its shape allows you to constantly compress your chakra to increase the amount in the sphere and the fact that the chakra is all the same distance from one end to another, there is no one weak point of the sphere. Any point of contact is equally lethal as another
 
Surface to Area volume is maximized in the sphere. For a minimal amount of power in the sphere, which enhances the control as well, Rasengan can deliver the most efficient attack.
 
it seems to me that the rotation of chakra that takes place in a rasengan would be impossible in any other shape except a sphere. that is why the rasengan has a spherical shape.
 
brucelee said:
Maybe Naruto will create a black hole! How cool would that be? A temporary black hole.

The entire screen turned into dark and the victim can saw some kind of green sphere act like a core that channelling or absorb alot of energy then explode like a green giant dome...

Ultima from FF8/10 ftw.
 
Beren said:
Surface to Area volume is maximized in the sphere. For a minimal amount of power in the sphere, which enhances the control as well, Rasengan can deliver the most efficient attack.

This is correct. Shidoshi also had a good explanation in terms of a physical chemistry perspective. Man, that class sucked. But I did learn that spheres are basically godly. :laugh
 
Goku said:
Please don't disregard what was said in the manga, in terms of form chidori is not better, Raikiri isn't better either, the reason they can have a little advantage over Rasengan is because it adds the Element with the form.

Chidori isnt a formed jutsu, that is the natural form of electricity. It's kind of the point Kakashi is making when explaining the new jutsu, natured jutsu lack form almost completely aside from what they carry inately and chakra form manipulation is the complete opposite, it carries no nature and is based completely on how the chakra is formed.
 
Hm...I always wondered why Naruto used Rasengan on the guy's stomach. Why not on his face, or his crotch? :huh

Let's see them recover from that.
 
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