Tiers Who is stronger, Ryuuma or Mihawk?

Who is stronger, Ryuuma or Mihawk?


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MartyMcFly1

Danger is my middle name!
Roger was not peerless, he was rivalled by Whitebeard and Garp in strength. The enemies that defeated Joyboy were the combination of the 20 ancient Kingdoms which I doubt Roger has ever faced of such scale. He never needed to carry on Joyboys mission.

Again, it is a far greater assumption to assume that Roger could do what Joyboy failed to do when the wholepoint of Roger is that he couldn't carry out Joyboy's mission for whatever reasons, and had to pass on his will to Luffy. Plot is also a valid reason btw, because plot is what made Roger Pirate King, and plot also says Roger cannot fulfill Joyboy's wish. If you dismiss plot, Roger wouldn't even exist.

Storytelling clearly puts Joyboy as a legend that Roger looks up to, just like how Kaido looks up to Roger. That much should be respected.
The Roger that we watched evenly fight Whitebeard was sick and dying. Even still that doesn’t change anything, Whitebeard and even Garp were friendly rivals of Roger. He won them over. If we take Garps attempts to capture Roger at face value, then he failed. I’m sure Joy Boy had strong allies and even enemies that were comparable to him. I suspect he lost in the end, so he may not have been the strongest of his time.

Roger was so powerful that when Shiki heard that the WG/Marines captured him he outright didn’t believe them and went to challenge them. I am interested to see what Roger was like during God Valley.

Roger didn’t carry out Joy Boys mission not for ‘whatever reason’ but because he was sick and quickly dying and the other sovereign wouldn’t be born for years after his death. It’s all laid out right in the story for us.
 

Beyblade

Active Member
The Roger that we watched evenly fight Whitebeard was sick and dying. Even still that doesn’t change anything, Whitebeard and even Garp were friendly rivals of Roger. He won them over. If we take Garps attempts to capture Roger at face value, then he failed. I’m sure Joy Boy had strong allies and even enemies that were comparable to him. I suspect he lost in the end, so he may not have been the strongest of his time.

Roger was so powerful that when Shiki heard that the WG/Marines captured him he outright didn’t believe them and went to challenge them. I am interested to see what Roger was like during God Valley.

Roger didn’t carry out Joy Boys mission not for ‘whatever reason’ but because he was sick and quickly dying and the other sovereign wouldn’t be born for years after his death. It’s all laid out right in the story for us.
Luffy is gonna become Pirate King before succeeding Joyboy.

It is clear Joyboy > Roger > current Luffy.

The portrayals and storytelling clearly puts Joyboy as a legend that even Roger respects and look up, I don't buy the new gen surpassing old gen thing.

Only the current MC and his gang would surpass the old legends, Roger and Mihawk do not have such a luxury.

Joyboy was the progenitor of everything , without Joyboy there would not even have the One Piece to begin with, and there would be no Pirates much less any Pirate King.
 

MartyMcFly1

Danger is my middle name!
Luffy is gonna become Pirate King before succeeding Joyboy.

It is clear Joyboy > Roger > current Luffy.

The portrayals and storytelling clearly puts Joyboy as a legend that even Roger respects and look up, I don't buy the new gen surpassing old gen thing.

Only the current MC and his gang would surpass the old legends, Roger and Mihawk do not have such a luxury.
Joy Boy’s story ended in failure most likely. That’s why he was writing an apology and the void century is a thing. Rogers story ended in absolute victory and he died sort of playing a prank that made all of his friends laugh and inspired a generation. Joy Boy was erased from history, Roger made sure he couldn’t be erased.

Without really knowing everything about Joy Boy, my opinion is that Roger is more impressive to me…though I think it’s possible Joy Boy had stronger alliances and the use of all the ancient weapons.

If we are to assume any of Joy Boys enemies are still alive, they couldn’t stop Roger.

If I had to give any comparison to other fictional works, I’d say Joy Boy is Ashura and Roger is Hashirama.
 

Beyblade

Active Member
Joy Boy’s story ended in failure most likely. That’s why he was writing an apology and the void century is a thing. Rogers story ended in absolute victory and he died sort of playing a prank that made all of his friends laugh and inspired a generation. Joy Boy was erased from history, Roger made sure he couldn’t be erased.

Without really knowing everything about Joy Boy, my opinion is that Roger is more impressive to me…though I think it’s possible Joy Boy had stronger alliances and the use of all the ancient weapons.

If we are to assume any of Joy Boys enemies are still alive, they couldn’t stop Roger.
Joyboy was the progenitor of everything , without Joyboy there would not even have the One Piece to begin with, and there would be no Pirates much less any Pirate King.

Roger never had to deal with 20 Ancient Kingdoms coming at him at the same time, no he never had a challenge any close to that.

Just because someone who failed to become a billonaire but still has 500 mill in his account doesn't mean he is less sucessful than someone who successfully became a millionaire.

The scope of their goals is on a complelely different scale.

Joyboy is much more impressive to me, because without him, the One Piece would not even exist, and there would not even have any Pirate Kings or pirates. You need to respect that.
 

MartyMcFly1

Danger is my middle name!
Joyboy was the progenitor of everything , without Joyboy there would not even have the One Piece to begin with, and there would be no Pirates much less any Pirate King.

Roger never had to deal with 20 Ancient Kingdoms coming at him at the same time, no he never had a challenge any close to that.

Just because someone who failed to become a billonaire but still has 500 mill in his account doesn't mean he is less sucessful than someone who successfully became a millionaire.

The scope of their goals is on a complelely different scale.

Joyboy is much more impressive to me, because without him, the One Piece would not even exist, and there would not even have any Pirate Kings or pirates. You need to respect that.
I could easily be wrong about all of this, but I think the undefeated pirate who conquered the world is more impressive than the guy who got himself and his entire kingdom wiped off the map and history books.

Roger went out on top, I’m not so sure that Joy Boy did.
 

Beyblade

Active Member
I could easily be wrong about all of this, but I think the undefeated pirate who conquered the world is more impressive than the guy who got himself and his entire kingdom wiped off the map and history books.
Roger didn't conquer the world, the world is still ruled by the WG and all he did was find the One Piece.

One is a pirate, a pirate King sure, but still a pirate, the other was the ruler of likely the greatest kingdom ever in history.

And guess who was the one who even left the One Piece behind in the first place?
 

MartyMcFly1

Danger is my middle name!
Roger didn't conquer the world, the world is still ruled by the WG and all he did was find the One Piece.

One is a pirate, a pirate King sure, but still a pirate, the other was the ruler of likely the greatest kingdom ever in history.

And guess who was the one who even left the One Piece behind in the first place?
That’s why part of me suspects Joy Boy had his kingdom handed to him, whereas Roger grew up a peasant boy and took his in blood.
 

Beyblade

Active Member
That’s why part of me suspects Joy Boy had his kingdom handed to him, whereas Roger grew up a peasant boy and took his in blood.
You know @MartyMcFly1 I feel that most of the times you simply love play devil's advocate to the majority opinion, for example going as far as to purposely downplay Kaido just because you don't like seeing Kaidobros wanking him despite you yourself saying that you would have argued for Kaido in a perfect world.

Is this a habit of yours?

I mean now you are even going as far as to try your best to downplay Joyboy with far far bigger assumptions than the manga's portrayal of him, where he is portrayed as a legend that even Roger respected.
 

MartyMcFly1

Danger is my middle name!
You know @MartyMcFly1 I feel that most of the times you simply love play devil's advocate to the majority opinion, for example going as far as to purposely downplay Kaido just because you don't like seeing Kaidobros wanking him despite you yourself saying that you would have argued for Kaido in a perfect world.

Is this a habit of yours?

I mean now you are even going as far as to try your best to downplay Joyboy with far far bigger assumptions than the manga's portrayal of him so far.

Do you get a kick out of this or something?
I dunno Beyblade, I’ve got 12+ years of posts. Go back and read some my brother in Christ.

Kaido isn’t the strongest, I’ll die on that hill. I still like the character though, I just found myself arguing against him more often than not.

Let me ask you this: Let’s say Joy Boy was the ruler of a great ancient Kingdom, do you see Luffy wanting to follow in his footsteps, or in Rogers?

To my thinking Luffy may accidentally fulfill some Joy Boy prophecy, but I think Luffy wants to travel with his friends as pirates and see the world until the very end.
 

Beyblade

Active Member
Nope. Kaido isn’t the strongest, I’ll die on that hill. I still like the character though, I just found myself arguing against him more often than not.

Let me ask you this: Let’s say Joy Boy was the ruler of a great ancient Kingdom, do you see Luffy wanting to follow in his footsteps, or in Rogers?

To my thinking Luffy may accidentally fulfill some Joy Boy prophecy, but I think Luffy wants to travel with his friends as pirates and see the world until the very end.
Luffy is literally Joyboy himself. Whatever choice Luffy makes in the future, it would be the same as Joyboy.
 

MartyMcFly1

Danger is my middle name!
Luffy is literally Joyboy himself. Whatever choice Luffy makes in the future, it would be the same as Joyboy.
I don’t think so. Luffy is still Luffy. He may have the same fruit or a fruit with Joy Boy’s abilities. But he is still himself.
 

Beyblade

Active Member
I don’t think so. Luffy is still Luffy. He may have the same fruit or a fruit with Joy Boy’s abilities. But he is still himself.
You can choose to not think so as much as you like, as far as the manga goes and narration through Zunesha's words, Luffy IS joyboy.

Feel free to hate it, your opinion matters less than what the story actually says.

As for Kaido, no one says he is the strongest in the entire series, just that he is the current strongest in the current era, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
 

MartyMcFly1

Danger is my middle name!
You can choose to not think so as much as you like, as far as the manga goes and narration through Zunesha's words, Luffy IS joyboy.

Feel free to hate it.

As for Kaido, no one says he is the strongest in the entire series, just that he is the current strongest in the current era, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
You keep saying ‘no one says that’ but you just joined this month my brother in Christ. I dunno if you have adequate context.

Zunesha later said “It’s as though you’re here right now” I don’t think he was saying Luffy actually is the person that he knew as Joy Boy from the past.
 

Furinji Saiga

The One Shadow
Mihawk is my favorite character in this manga, so I have a bias towards him.

However I think with how Oda is comparing Zoro to Ryuma constantly and Zoro will match or surpass his achievements and heroism.

The main telling difference between the two is their heroism.

Mihawk reached the Pinnacle of swordsmanship, but in the end he sat on his title and became jaded on his achievements and fame. He did not really do anything to change the world for good.

Meanwhile Ryuma is a hero among heroes, he is not even aware of his status as the WSS/King because they are not important to him. He understands that the ultimate end and measure of a Warrior is not fame or titles it is what you are able to protect and save.




I believe in terms of power and ability they are even, but Ryuma wins out in the end because of his greater heroic stature and heart of a true warrior.

And that is where Zoro will be much more closely tied with Ryuma over Mihawk, he will become one of the greatest heroes who uses his power to protect others.
 

Beyblade

Active Member
You keep saying ‘no one says that’ but you just joined this month my brother in Christ. I dunno if you have adequate context.

Zunesha later said “It’s as though you’re here right now” I don’t think he was saying Luffy actually is the person that he knew as Joy Boy from the past.
You assume that I never lurk this forum.

Joyboy returned as Luffy, that's all there is to it. Joyboy is Luffy, Luffy is Joyboy.
 

MartyMcFly1

Danger is my middle name!
You assume that I never lurk this forum.

Joyboy returned as Luffy, that's all there is to it. Joyboy is Luffy, Luffy is Joyboy.
I was looking at a post of mine from 2012 and I was listing my top 5 strongest characters, and one of them was ‘NOT KAIDO’ lmao.

I don’t think Luffy and Joy Boy are the same person, Zunesha said as much. Oda even juxtaposed Zunesha saying that with Kaido asking Luffy who he was, and Luffy said he is Luffy.
 

Beyblade

Active Member
I was looking at a post of mine from 2012 and I was listing my top 5 strongest characters, and one of them was ‘NOT KAIDO’ lmao.

I don’t think Luffy and Joy Boy are the same person, Zunesha said as much. Oda even juxtaposed Zunesha saying that with Kaido asking Luffy who he was, and Luffy said he is Luffy.

Kaido literally had no feats in 2012,no gauge is valid at that time.

And who says that Luffy cannot be both Luffy and Joyboy? The Gomu Gomu no Mi has two names, if that isn't a hint. He is literally known as the warrior called Joyboy to the Wano citizens now.
 

MartyMcFly1

Danger is my middle name!
Kaido literally had no feats in 2012,no gauge is valid at that time.

And who says that Luffy cannot be both Luffy and Joyboy? The Gomu Gomu no Mi has two names, if that isn't a hint. He is literally known as the warrior called Joyboy to the Wano citizens now.
For someone who lurks so much with such strong opinions on my posts, you seem to have missed a lot. Very little of what I thought over a decade a go is different now. Even down to my tier list.

One piece is a simple story and I always say, when predicting how strong a character is likely to be Plot>>>>>Feats. Every.Time.

Joy Boy was a real person. Was Joy Boy both Luffy and Joy Boy or was he just Joy Boy?
 

Beyblade

Active Member
For someone who lurks so much with such strong opinions on my posts, you seem to have missed a lot. Very little of what I thought over a decade a go is different now. Even down to my tier list.

One piece is a simple story and I always say, when predicting how strong a character is likely to be Plot>>>>>Feats. Every.Time.

Joy Boy was a real person. Was Joy Boy both Luffy and Joy Boy or was he just Joy Boy?
Luffy is both Joyboy and Luffy, just like how Gomu Gomu no Mi is also called Hito Hito no Mi: model Nika.

Two names or epithets can coexist for a single person.

Feats and Plot goes hand in hand, it is when people try to twist the narrative thar we get issues, when people disrespect the author's own story..
 

MartyMcFly1

Danger is my middle name!
Luffy is both Joyboy and Luffy, just like how Gomu Gomu no Mi is also called Hito Hito no Mi: model Nika.

Two names or epithets can coexist for a single person.

Feats and Plot goes hand in hand, it is when people try to twist the narrative thar we get issues, when people disrespect the author's own story..
Lol whatever you say chief. But Joy Boy from 800 years ago is a different person than Luffy of today.

The plot of the story makes it easy to see what certain characters feats will likely be. Even before they have any.
 

Beyblade

Active Member
Lol whatever you say chief. But Joy Boy from 800 years ago is a different person than Luffy of today.

The plot of the story makes it easy to see what certain characters feats will likely be. Even before they have any.
Joyboy returned 800 years later as Luffy.

And no, not necessarily. Predictions have gone wildly wrong such as people who thought Luffy was ready to take on a Yonko after beating Katakuri, or Admiral level Doflamingo etc.

I have yet to see anyone claiming that Kaido would be the strongest even by EOS in the whole series, but it is not wrong to believe that he is indeed the current strongest for now.
 

Kroczilla

Well-Known Member
The title of "sword god" while sounding more impressive, is pretty suspect tbh. We don't know how strong the other fighters of Ryuuma's era were. We have no idea the quality of opposition he faced.

This isn't me saying Mihawk > Ryuuma or whatever. I also have my own thoughts on Mihawk, though that's not relevant. Tbh, this is inconclusive at best. There's no objective reason to pick one over the other imho.
 
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