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What is Totsuka Blade's piercing power?

ThirdRidoku

Well-Known Member
The blade has an incorporeal feature that when activated will allow it to pass through normal matter. So any defense that isn't spiritual in nature would just be bypassed. It isn't a power-scaling issue but an issue of special characteristics
 

Rin

Well-Known Member
The blade has an incorporeal feature that when activated will allow it to pass through normal matter. So any defense that isn't spiritual in nature would just be bypassed. It isn't a power-scaling issue but an issue of special characteristics
Dan asks Chouza to make a physical barrier to stop his Ghost Transformation.


Being called ethereal doesn't mean it can bypass any defense, the simple fact that Totsuka interacts with the physical world means that ain't right.
The chakra itself—that composes ninjutsu—holds spiritual energy, that may be an explanation as to why Reika could be stopped by a barrier. And Reika is one that doesn't interact with physical body, then it's more ethereal than Totsuka that spilled Orochimaru's blood.
 

Feorlen

Active Member
It must have some fallibility if Kishimoto is so keen on acknowledging the mythology of the sword. It was broken into three pieces through a bite by the sun goddess Amaterasu. Now what in the manga can resist it? Something with impressive durability maybe? I think it can be deflected or repelled at least. A shinobi like the 3rd Raikage I'm not certain if the Totsuka blade would pierce through his flesh.

Yata's Mirror I would also be curious to know what weaknesses it could have if any. Maybe a counter technique similar to the Izanami called Ishikoridome that dissolves or shatters the mirror? In the source mythology she's the one who created the mirror so maybe an argument of origination.
 

Rin

Well-Known Member
Well, we can do some scaling. The normal Susano'o sword could already perfurate Ribcage Susanoo:


However, this sword can't penetrate V3 Susano'o, since Tsunade broke it and couldn't break V3 Susano'o.
Do anyone know any other feat from Susanoo Sword?
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
Dan asks Chouza to make a physical barrier to stop his Ghost Transformation.


Being called ethereal doesn't mean it can bypass any defense, the simple fact that Totsuka interacts with the physical world means that ain't right.
The chakra itself—that composes ninjutsu—holds spiritual energy, that may be an explanation as to why Reika could be stopped by a barrier. And Reika is one that doesn't interact with physical body, then it's more ethereal than Totsuka that spilled Orochimaru's blood.

@ThirdRidoku he made a good point 🤔
 

ThirdRidoku

Well-Known Member
Being called ethereal doesn't mean it can bypass any defense, the simple fact that Totsuka interacts with the physical world means that ain't right.
Being called incorporeal by definition means it can pass through any conventional material defense, because by definition it wouldn't interact with matter that exists in the corporeal realm. However, defenses of a spirtual nature can interact with it and with sufficient durability, said defense could block the blade, yes.

Totsuka doesn't consistently interact with the physical world though, because it pierced through Orochimaru's last hydra head without drawing any blood ( despite doing so earlier ), and also it pierced through Nagato without really moving his body on impact nor did Nagato bleed Edo Tensei papers like Edo tensei normally do when pierced by attacks. Not to mention that when Nagato is sealed by the Blade, we see his entire body glowing similiar to how Sasori and Sai's brother was when their soul was being released, which is not only consistent with the blade's incorporeal ability, but consistent with the fact that Databook 3 says Tosuka can seal souls ( which are an incorporeal/ spiritual object bu nature).


The author was inconsistent in the depiction and failed to explain why it sometimes it is corporeal, but again the manga and databook both state the Blade is incorporeal, which means it clearly does not always exist in a corporeal form like how it was when Itachi initially pierced through the first 7 or so hydras and then Orochimaru himself.

So the inconsistent feats and the statements are reconciled by simply assuming that Itachi can alternate the physical and non-physical modes of existence of the blade

:oldshrug



he chakra itself—that composes ninjutsu—holds spiritual energy, that may be an explanation as to why Reika could be stopped by a barrier. And Reika is one that doesn't interact with physical body, then it's more ethereal than Totsuka that spilled Orochimaru's blood.
Again to reiterate, looking at only Totsuka spilling Orochimaru's blood is omitting the fact that it also phased through his last giant snake and also phased through Nagato.

That aside, Sure the Four Violet Flames Formation could block Totsuka if it could block an astral body like Dan. But this is an esoteric ability. We have only seen the Sound 4 and several members of the 1st division use it. There is no evidence that other barriers also have the same feature as this jutsu that allows it it to block incorporeal creatures and attacks.

V2 Kinaku's chakra armor didn't stop Ino's mind transfer for example.
 

blk

Well-Known Member
The blade has an incorporeal feature that when activated will allow it to pass through normal matter. So any defense that isn't spiritual in nature would just be bypassed. It isn't a power-scaling issue but an issue of special characteristics

:gokuyeaboi
 

Gulash

Well-Known Member
The blade has an incorporeal feature that when activated will allow it to pass through normal matter. So any defense that isn't spiritual in nature would just be bypassed. It isn't a power-scaling issue but an issue of special characteristics
Was never implied nor shown to be true.
Nice imagination though
 

Rin

Well-Known Member
Totsuka doesn't consistently interact with the physical world though, because it pierced through Orochimaru's last hydra head without drawing any blood ( despite doing so earlier ), and also it pierced through Nagato without really moving his body on impact nor did Nagato bleed Edo Tensei papers like Edo tensei normally do when pierced by attacks. Not to mention that when Nagato is sealed by the Blade, we see his entire body glowing similiar to how Sasori and Sai's brother was when their soul was being released, which is not only consistent with the blade's incorporeal ability, but consistent with the fact that Databook 3 says Tosuka can seal souls ( which are an incorporeal/ spiritual object bu nature).
ㅤThe same Totsuka that pierced Hydra's head without blood spilled Orochimaru's blood, therefore it doesn't make sense.


ㅤYour explanation can't adress to that—since Orochimaru and Hydra were pierced at the same moment. Unless you say only Totsuka's tip is ethereal, this refutes you.

The Nagato argument is fair enough, Totsuka also didn't affect the ground:


My only problem is with Totsuka spilling Orochimaru's blood, it is never stated that Totsuka can turn physical and ethereal and there's no reason for Itachi to turn it physical against Orochimaru.

The Nagato page is pretty convincing though, I might review my opinion. But Chakra Defenses would still stop it.
That aside, Sure the Four Violet Flames Formation could block Totsuka if it could block an astral body like Dan. But this is an esoteric ability. We have only seen the Sound 4 and several members of the 1st division use it. There is no evidence that other barriers also have the same feature as this jutsu that allows it it to block incorporeal creatures and attacks.
Actually, the barrier that was holding Dan is red, then you missed it. Either way, that doesn't make sense, such property was never stated in canon and also doesn't make sense to happen. The barrier is just a barrier, it's not Hagoromo's Miraculous Shield that grew up.

V2 didn't stop Ino's attack because it's an armor connected to Kinkaku's own chakra and body. Then Chakra Barriers like Susanoo that are spiritual energy + physical energy can stop ethereal beings.
 

Mithos

The Chosen
The Databook says it is a “variant of the Sword of Kusanagi that is endowed with the power to plunge those it pierces into a genjutsu world.” Nowhere does it say it pierces anything because it’s spiritual; in fact, the fact it was compared to Orochimaru’s Kusanagi and physically sliced/pierced Orochimaru and the Eight-Headed Serpent implies the opposite.

It likely has identical piercing power to Orochimaru’s Kusanagi.
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
The Databook says it is a “variant of the Sword of Kusanagi that is endowed with the power to plunge those it pierces into a genjutsu world.” Nowhere does it say it pierces anything because it’s spiritual; in fact, the fact it was compared to Orochimaru’s Kusanagi and physically sliced/pierced Orochimaru and the Eight-Headed Serpent implies the opposite.

It likely has identical piercing power to Orochimaru’s Kusanagi.

This.
 

Gin Ichimaru

Well-Known Member
doesn't necessarily have any special properties that allow it to pierce things it couldn't normally pierce, never stated

however there is not much in the naruto world that can tank a susanoo sword, and anything that can would be far above Itachi

The exceptions are probably A3 and Kyuubi, who would both lose to Amaterasu, so it doesn't really matter
 

TraderJoe

Well-Known Member
The Databook says it is a “variant of the Sword of Kusanagi that is endowed with the power to plunge those it pierces into a genjutsu world.” Nowhere does it say it pierces anything because it’s spiritual; in fact, the fact it was compared to Orochimaru’s Kusanagi and physically sliced/pierced Orochimaru and the Eight-Headed Serpent implies the opposite.

It likely has identical piercing power to Orochimaru’s Kusanagi.
Except for the fact the databook also describes the Totsuka blade as:
-"magical matchless sacred weapons"
-"Susano'o boasts an abosutely perfect attack"
-"The Ten-Handed Sword that can cut down any enemy"

But sure... identical piercing power to Oro's Kusanagi...
 

Mithos

The Chosen
Except for the fact the databook also describes the Totsuka blade as:
-"magical matchless sacred weapons"
-"Susano'o boasts an abosutely perfect attack"
-"The Ten-Handed Sword that can cut down any enemy"

But sure... identical piercing power to Oro's Kusanagi...
This is just standard Databook hyperbole. It still has to physically pierce its target (it doesn’t magically bypass all physical objects), and there’s no reason to think it would pierce V4 Susano’o for example.
 

TraderJoe

Well-Known Member
This is just standard Databook hyperbole. It still has to physically pierce its target (it doesn’t magically bypass all physical objects), and there’s no reason to think it would pierce V4 Susano’o for example.
What about the actual manga? Just another hyperbolic statement by the most knowledgeable character in the series:
 

Mithos

The Chosen
What about the actual manga? Just another hyperbolic statement by the most knowledgeable character in the series:
Yes, it’s very obviously hyperbolic…

How many times have we been told something is an “absolute defense,” only for it to fail, for example? There is already precedent for this hyperbole for Itachi: Amaterasu was stated to be as hot as the sun that reduces people to ash, but we’ve seen multiple characters survive its flames, so…

And bringing back the comparison to Orochimaru’s Sword of Kusanagi, the Databook said “everything” is hacked and slashed and murdered by the Sword of Kusanagi, despite us seeing Enma and KN4 withstand it. Whenever there are absolute statements like this, there are always exceptions. Why so many recognize this for everyone but Itachi is beyond me.

For all intents and purposes, the Sword of Totsuka pierces and seals anything but the strongest defenses. It’s not meant to be taken literally that are no defenses against the blade.
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
Nice strawman

Nah, your points just suck.

Zetsu who has recorded all of shinobi history confirms the properties of the both the Totsuka Blade and Yata Mirror

Zetsu who confirmed Amaterasu as the strongest physical attack when ETSB, Shinsusenju, Chibaku Tensei, PS, Juubidama, and AA (or something like it) all existed in history too?

Amaterasu >>> PS (which Indra had) and Ash Bones (which Kaguya had) confirmed :russ

Almost like he's just throwing out random hype :hm

nothing in the manga contradicts this and the databook reconfirms this

Nothing in the manga supports this either, actually. The Yata so far has only blocked a fodder sword and exploding tags, barely Kage level offenses. It's not even clear if the Yata went up against Kirin (though if it did, it failed to keep Itachi from taking some damage or losing his Susano'o).
 

blk

Well-Known Member
It is limitless.

Totsuka operates on a different plane of existence than the physical.

Nothing can stop or evade it as far as we have seen :smoke
 

TraderJoe

Well-Known Member
Yes, it’s very obviously hyperbolic…

How many times have we been told something is an “absolute defense,” only for it to fail, for example? There is already precedent for this hyperbole for Itachi: Amaterasu was stated to be as hot as the sun that reduces people to ash, but we’ve seen multiple characters survive its flames, so…

And bringing back the comparison to Orochimaru’s Sword of Kusanagi, the Databook said “everything” is hacked and slashed and murdered by the Sword of Kusanagi, despite us seeing Enma and KN4 withstand it. Whenever there are absolute statements like this, there are always exceptions. Why so many recognize this for everyone but Itachi is beyond me.

For all intents and purposes, the Sword of Totsuka pierces and seals anything but the strongest defenses. It’s not meant to be taken literally that are no defenses against the blade.
You initially claimed the Totsuka's piercing limits caps out at Kusanagi blade due to the fact it was described as a variant. My response was intended for you to reconsider this claim due the massive difference in portrayal between the two. When the databook didn't seem to be sufficient, I provided support from the manga. Where the blade ultimately caps out or if it does, I have no clue - however, I am confident it's well above the Kusanagi sword.
 

Mithos

The Chosen
You initially claimed the Totsuka's piercing limits caps out at Kusanagi blade due to the fact it was described as a variant. My response was intended for you to reconsider this claim due the massive difference in portrayal between the two. When the databook didn't seem to be sufficient, I provided support from the manga. Where the blade ultimately caps out or if it does, I have no clue - however, I am confident it's well above the Kusanagi sword.
I believe the massive different in portrayal comes from its sealing effect, not a massive difference in piercing power/sharpness. If it’s sharper than the Sword of Kusanagi I wouldn’t be surprised, but I also haven’t seen anything that indicates I should believe it vastly surpasses Orochimaru’s sword in this area.
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
@ThirdRidoku The Totsuka cutting off Yamata's heads but not generating blood isn't proof, it could just be an inconsistency or have to do with Yamata being more of a chakra avatar than an actual being.
 
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