Uchiha, weakest of the Four Leaf Pillar clans.

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Tobirama

GLORIOUS LEADER
This will probably be deleted because of title, but, MODS READ IT FIRST!



Think with me a second;

WE were told that Uchiha clan were weak until Madara murdered his best friend and stole his brother's eyes. After that, because of Permanent Mangekyou Sharingan, they started dominating their region, beating clans and taking them over, until they were faced with the Mokuton Monster, Shodai, who singlehandedly stopped them and forced Madara into a peace treaty.

We can gather from this that:

-the clans they faced were either decimated completely or
-integrated into the clan as servants

Konoha was formed by Shodai. There are 4 clans of Konoha known as the Four Leaf Pillars. They are Uchiha, Hyuuga, Akimichi and Aburame.

These Four clans were part of the initial set up of Konoha. We know they were all around in the same region because they all came together to make Konoha.

My theory start with the 3 other clans of the Four Leaf Pillars are greater than Uchiha clan.

The Uchiha clan were supposedly dominating their region but yet we still have these clans as founders. If the Uchiha were so strong why are these clans still around?

Simple. Because they have everything you want to counter the Uchiha power-up Sharingan.


Think about it man, Aburame is a clan that can't be put in genjutsu because of their bugs. And these bugs mean that if they are caught in any style of genjutsu they can easily escape because the bugs tell them. Also, they are able to learn everything about the enemy simply by sending a few flies into the enemy camp and then receiving the information when they come back. They can easily dodge any attacks by simple Bug Kawarimi technique.

Akimichi clan, they have a secret ability that lets them grow to the size of houses. What you gonna do against an army with shinobi who's little toe is bigger than your entire body? You gonna get squashed like a little bug.

The Hyuuga clan have natural genjutsu counters. The Byakugan can see into their chakra system and they can see someone else's chakra there so they can tell immediately if it is genjutsu. Also, they possess the best chakra control of anyone and they can push out the enemy chakra immediately. Their ability means they can scan the enemy from 1Km before hand like Aburame and know all the enemies they have to face.


I believe that the Uchiha clan chose which clans to fight, defeat and take over because if they came up against these they would be defeated immediately. The only reason Uchiha clan faced Senju clan was because Shodai is a good guy and went looking for Madara because all his friends' clans were being defeated.

Every chapter keeps showing me why I'm right, and why Uchiha need 6 power-ups (CS, CS2, Sharingan, MS, EMS, drugs) to compete on any sort of level with Ino level shinobi.
 
I'd say your logic's a bit shaky.

First of all, the Uchiha were not beaten into submission by the Senju clan and then incorporated into the new entity known as Konoha. The village was made by a consentual (as far as we know) alliance between the two local powers.

And since we don't really hear about the the Senju "clan" ever again later, my guess would be that it never was a single family-clan like the Hyuuga or the Uchiha, but more of an alliance of various shinobi clans under the leadership of Shodai, which could easily include both the Akimichi and Aburame, much like its successor-organization of Konoha does.
 
I'd say your logic's a bit shaky.

First of all, the Uchiha were not beaten into submission by the Senju clan and then incorporated into the new entity known as Konoha. The village was made by a consentual (as far as we know) alliance between the two local powers.

And since we don't really hear about the the Senju "clan" ever again later, my guess would be that it never was a single family-clan like the Hyuuga or the Uchiha, but more of an alliance of various shinobi clans under the leadership of Shodai, which could easily include both the Akimichi and Aburame, much like its successor-organization of Konoha does.

:thumbs

OP, your thread is mostly based on conjecture and tenuous assumptions... since we don't really know enough about the other clans - basically because Kishi doesn't bother with them. :zaru
 
Senju Leader/Shodai pulled the curtain down on the Uchiha Clan and in particular Madara's ambitions to dominate Konoha.

But the Hyuuga Clan and the rest likely played a large factor in that as well. Good thread.
 
Aburame is a clan that can't be put in genjutsu because of their bugs. And these bugs mean that if they are caught in any style of genjutsu they can easily escape because the bugs tell them.
Except their bugs can't help them out of Tsukuyomi. Their bugs could be destroyed with ninjutsu.
Akimichi clan, they have a secret ability that lets them grow to the size of houses. What you gonna do against an army with shinobi who's little toe is bigger than your entire body? You gonna get squashed like a little bug.
Summon Susanoo? Torch them with Amaterasu? Trap them in a genjutsu?
The Hyuuga clan have natural genjutsu counters. The Byakugan can see into their chakra system and they can see someone else's chakra there so they can tell immediately if it is genjutsu. Also, they possess the best chakra control of anyone and they can push out the enemy chakra immediately.
How would they combat Amaterasu though? Also, a three-tomoe Sharingan can predict their movement, and Uchiha have shown a natural agility.
 
You fail where is the Clan Nara they even got there own Akatsuki Buried in their garden and fuck where is the Sarotobi clan?
 
Except their bugs can't help them out of Tsukuyomi. Their bugs could be destroyed with ninjutsu.
Summon Susanoo? Torch them with Amaterasu? Trap them in a genjutsu?
How would they combat Amaterasu though? Also, a three-tomoe Sharingan can predict their movement, and Uchiha have shown a natural agility.

How many Uchihas have MS? In the grand scheme of things, not enough to make a difference. After 100 years, probably the only people with MS was Madara and Itachi. 2 out of a clan of 1000.

You must realise most aren't scum who are willing to murder their best friend.

And we saw the extent of their abilities. If there is a full scale clash each MS user can only use MS about 3 times because it is intensive on chakra before they need to be carried away from a battle (see: Kisame leading Itachi away from Jiraiya). Whereas the other clans abilities are better distributed, the other clans have a more level playing field for their guys.

How can you trap something in genjutsu when it is towering over you and you can't see past it's belly?

Base Hyuuga speed is Lee with 5 gates speed. That is way to fast for Sharingan to scan. Even Kakashi said so in Chunnin Shiken: 'damn my 3 tomoe Sharingan can't keep up'. Lee couldn't stand a chance against Hyuuga unless he accessed 5 gates. That is the power of Hyuuga who demand only the best from their members.
 
Funny the manga say the Uchihas are the best of all clans in Konoha, I wonder who is right you or Kishi.
 
This will probably be deleted because of title, but, MODS READ IT FIRST!



Think with me a second;

WE were told that Uchiha clan were weak until Madara murdered his best friend and stole his brother's eyes. After that, because of Permanent Mangekyou Sharingan, they started dominating their region, beating clans and taking them over, until they were faced with the Mokuton Monster, Shodai, who singlehandedly stopped them and forced Madara into a peace treaty.

We can gather from this that:

-the clans they faced were either decimated completely or
-integrated into the clan as servants

Konoha was formed by Shodai. There are 4 clans of Konoha known as the Four Leaf Pillars. They are Uchiha, Hyuuga, Akimichi and Aburame.

These Four clans were part of the initial set up of Konoha. We know they were all around in the same region because they all came together to make Konoha.

My theory start with the 3 other clans of the Four Leaf Pillars are greater than Uchiha clan.

The Uchiha clan were supposedly dominating their region but yet we still have these clans as founders. If the Uchiha were so strong why are these clans still around?

Simple. Because they have everything you want to counter the Uchiha power-up Sharingan.


Think about it man, Aburame is a clan that can't be put in genjutsu because of their bugs. And these bugs mean that if they are caught in any style of genjutsu they can easily escape because the bugs tell them. Also, they are able to learn everything about the enemy simply by sending a few flies into the enemy camp and then receiving the information when they come back. They can easily dodge any attacks by simple Bug Kawarimi technique.

Akimichi clan, they have a secret ability that lets them grow to the size of houses. What you gonna do against an army with shinobi who's little toe is bigger than your entire body? You gonna get squashed like a little bug.

The Hyuuga clan have natural genjutsu counters. The Byakugan can see into their chakra system and they can see someone else's chakra there so they can tell immediately if it is genjutsu. Also, they possess the best chakra control of anyone and they can push out the enemy chakra immediately. Their ability means they can scan the enemy from 1Km before hand like Aburame and know all the enemies they have to face.


I believe that the Uchiha clan chose which clans to fight, defeat and take over because if they came up against these they would be defeated immediately. The only reason Uchiha clan faced Senju clan was because Shodai is a good guy and went looking for Madara because all his friends' clans were being defeated.

Every chapter keeps showing me why I'm right, and why Uchiha need 6 power-ups (CS, CS2, Sharingan, MS, EMS, drugs) to compete on any sort of level with Ino level shinobi.

Since where did it say that the uchiha clan was the weakest? I belive it to be among the top 2 and with the permament ms it easily became the strongest
 
How can you trap something in genjutsu when it is towering over you and you can't see past it's belly?

Hey, that's what Manda wants to know.

Base Hyuuga speed is Lee with 5 gates speed.
That statement has absolutely no basis whatsoever. When did any Hyuuga show anything close to that? Lee was already as fast as Neji normally, the gates were there to bridge the gap that was the result of Lee's lack of any special abilities versus the Hyuugas' advanced fighting style and jutsus.

That is way to fast for Sharingan to scan. Even Kakashi said so in Chunnin Shiken: 'damn my 3 tomoe Sharingan can't keep up'.

Kakashi said no such thing/pics or it never happened.

Lee couldn't stand a chance against Hyuuga unless he accessed 5 gates. That is the power of Hyuuga who demand only the best from their members.

More specifically, it was against Neji, the greatest Hyuuga child genius. Itachi, who was the same thing for the Uchiha clan, defeated Orochimaru at the same age.

I also feel obliged to note, from personal experience, that insects burn remarkably well (yeah, I was a cruel kid).
 
Sir Oro-chan, I respectfully disagree. Nowhere in the manga has it been stated that the Uchiha were out to take over every clan besides their own. That woudn't make sense anyway. I doubt Shodai would ally with them if they were. The four pillars were allies of the Uchiha. Very powerful in their own respect, but the fact that the Uchiha ddin't subjugate them doesn't meant that they were stronger. It probably means that they didn't try for political/alliance reasons.
 
Is there anything that can counter Amaterasu,since it was stated that the black flames are more hotter than the sun?This means that in order to survive Amaterasu you must be able to withstand a nuclear blast LoL That is a DBZ power level...
 
Is there anything that can counter Amaterasu,since it was stated that the black flames are more hotter than the sun?This means that in order to survive Amaterasu you must be able to withstand a nuclear blast LoL That is a DBZ power level...

Pure hype exaggeration. If they were hotter then the son, the entire hotel would have burst into flame, and Naruto/Sasuke/Jiraiya/Itachi/Kisame would have all died instantly.
 
I don't even remember the non-Uchiha clans anymore. Apparently, neither does Kishi :zaru

He seemed to enjoy reminding us throughout Part II about how Shodai defeated Madara (who had the Perm-Mangekyou Sharingan), the Kyuubi and how the Senju Clan and the Senju Leader put a stop to the Uchiha Clan and Madara.

ZINGER!
 
I don't think Amaterasu was statted as hotter than the sun, just that it was hot as the surface of the sun if I remember.
 
Is there anything that can counter Amaterasu,since it was stated that the black flames are more hotter than the sun?This means that in order to survive Amaterasu you must be able to withstand a nuclear blast LoL That is a DBZ power level...

Highly offtopic, but I'd like to say that, as with most jutsu, you're not really supposed to tank it. In fact, that's stupid.

Amaterasu actually takes conscious effort and physical strain on the user to guide and maintain, so you could just avoid it for some time while the user pretty much defeats himself (not an easy task, but hey, it's a legendary jutsu, it's not supposed to be easy), or fool the enemy into thinking he got you, like Sasuke did.

EDIT: Also, the user needs to look at something to guide the flames at it, so Shodai's Bringer of Darkness, or even Zabuza's Kirigakure no Jutsu, could render it useless.
 
The Hyuuga can't escape the tsukuyomi, as the person using the tsukuyomi can make them seed and feel whatever it is they wish to see. Also, it's a genjutsu that can't be broken, unless you have the sharingan apparently, kishimoto has drawn this out already, thus effectively defeating that logic.

The aburame are pretty useless against the sharingann also, as the sharingan can read chakra, everything that lives has chakra on some level. This means they could easily track down a bug flying about the room, especially if you sent one spying into a large group of Uchiha. Don't tell me i'm wrong, look at how sasuke saw microscopic bombs in his blood-stream. Now tell me how they wouldn't be able to see a random bug flying about? Also, they can't break the tsukuyomi either. Nothing in their bloodline permits them to do so.

The akimichi sure, they may be big, but eventually their chakra would run out. Once that happened, they'd have to revert back to their original size. Within that time, they'd have either two choices, eat the special soldier pills and regain their chakra but deal themselves alot of damage/die if eaten too many, or they could run away. Now mind you, they'd probably be fighting more than one Uchiha, so it would be pretty difficult to eat a soldier pill while you're being bombarded with fire-jutsu and weapons. Also, how long do you think they could stare at the ground? The akimichi aren't a bunch of Maito Gai's. He's probably the only person who could stand up to an Uchiha without looking up from the ground, and even then theres no chance he'd be able to stand up to more than one Uchiha while looking at the ground. Oh, and five bucks says that Amaterasu would burn them pretty easily.

You seek to discredit the Uchiha name, but.......


Spoiler:
IT DZN'T MATTER IF UR THREAD IS FULL OF WIN, IT WILL FALL AS AVERAGE WHEN UNDER THE EYE OF UCHIHAZZZZ
 
I don't think the Uchiha are the weakest... but you did make some good points...
- I never thought about the Aburame clan being immune to genjutsu and your logic makes sense, one bug could snap them out of genjutsu.
- I have always thought the Hyuuga would be immune to it.
- I am not sure about the whole Akimichi thing though
Uchiha do have the most advantages which kind of does make the other clans better in a way. Uchiha's have 3 levels of sharingan and the other clans besides Hyuuga have no bloodline limit and can still compete.
 
generally speaking the Uchiha's are not that strong but they have produced some of the strongest shinobi's. Madara, Itachi & Sasuke.

the rest don't measure up to half of what either one of the 3 are capable of. so yeah, they're not that strong
 
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