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Tsunade Senju vs 4th Raikage (A4)

SakuraLover16

Sakura + Sasuke = Sarada
. A4 will never attempt to overpower her . He is keenly aware she is stronger
Considering he has to get close with lariat and actually grab her to use his other special moves he still leaves himself open to be overpowered. Him being aware of her strength doesn't mean it still doesn't become a problem for him.
2. Susanoo were trading blows with Tsunade because they can’t die and was no risk to damage to them at all. Madara opting for stabs that he already knows she can heal from proves that
She was apparently at little risk for dying as well as indicated by Ay's statement and was handling her clones pretty well considering she had split them up and knocked some over. Madara obviously made multiple attempts on her life despite her regeneration anyways. He never stopped trying regardless of her regeneration.
3. It also implies since A4 was the only one who got caught in genjutsu that the others somehow have a defence against it . Despite A4 being the only one who actually thought his speed made it unlikely from him to be caught . Clearly another indication Madara was doing more of will breaking than out right going to kill them .
I disagree considering even after being genjutsu'd he was nearly skewered if not for Ohnoki. Even during that skirmish he still made attempts on Mei and Gaara's lives as well. Ay being caught doesn't say much about the others considering he left himself open for a split second had he not been worried about Tsunade I doubt he would have been caught as well considering.
The very fact that he opts to use susanoo and only susanoo once again shows this . As moukton to suppress chakra or outer path rods would have been far more effective at stopping Tsunade
What makes you think she would easily be caught by Mokuton she has intimate knowledge on it. The rods can also be overpowered and removed and considering she was able to survive bisection those rods wouldn't offer enough punishment to fully neutralize her unless he totally pincushions her. Also even without chakra she is still crazy strong.
that's right, people don't believe that she can't die in any way when she uses that technique
I mean I believe she can still die but the jutsu capable of doing so are so few in number and has to outright insta kill her or it may not be enough.
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
Considering he has to get close with lariat and actually grab her to use his other special moves he still leaves himself open to be overpowered. Him being aware of her strength doesn't mean it still doesn't become a problem for him.
This is straight dishonest he need not use any special move. Simply make his hand sharp. The same hand that chopped off his own arm and Hachibi horn . He doesn’t need to grab her at all . He is trying to behead her not play with her boob
She was apparently at little risk for dying as well as indicated by Ay's statement and was handling her clones pretty well considering she had split them up and knocked some over. Madara obviously made multiple attempts on her life despite her regeneration anyways. He never stopped trying regardless of her regeneration.
Yes Madara wanted to wear her down . Unless the claim is then she is immune to genjutsu as she wasn’t caught . Clearly is invulnerable to chakra rods as it wasn’t used , can tank all moukton as lord knows that also wasn’t used etc . Choosing to fight your enemy in a way to play with them is what Madara was going for . J mean his clones did less to A4 than a noob Ms sasuke did to A4
I disagree considering even after being genjutsu'd he was nearly skewered if not for Ohnoki. Even during that skirmish he still made attempts on Mei and Gaara's lives as well. Ay being caught doesn't say much about the others considering he left himself open for a split second had he not been worried about Tsunade I doubt he would have been caught as well considering.
Ok
What makes you think she would easily be caught by Mokuton she has intimate knowledge on it. The rods can also be overpowered and removed and considering she was able to survive bisection those rods wouldn't offer enough punishment to fully neutralize her unless he totally pincushions her. Also even without chakra she is still crazy strong.
The same reason she was actually caught in moukton in the very same manga . Or do you not recall her being put to sleep by flower tree world ?
I mean I believe she can still die but the jutsu capable of doing so are so few in number and has to outright insta kill her or it may not be enough.
No issues with the believe however it lacks feats
As such you must also hold said belief for all techniques described to do things they haven’t shown

else double standards
 

SakuraLover16

Sakura + Sasuke = Sarada
This is straight dishonest he need not use any special move. Simply make his hand sharp. The same hand that chopped off his own arm and Hachibi horn . He doesn’t need to grab her at all . He is trying to behead her not play with her boob
What is he capable of doing that the Madara clones aren't other than move faster? The fact of the matter is he isn't doing anything that they aren't capable of doing as well. In fact he was nearly killed by the same swords Tsunade was impaled with meaning that him using it to cut his own arm off doesn't mean as much as you think it does. Okay let's say that she is 100% going to die if her head is cut off even with Byakugou. If the weakness of her technique is that obvious and her head is something that she knows she has to protect above all else why wouldn't she guard it? Also why wouldn't Byakugou heal the damage to her neck as whatever is slicing it passes through? Hell she might even purposefully leave an opening so she has a chance to counterattack.
Yes Madara wanted to wear her down . Unless the claim is then she is immune to genjutsu as she wasn’t caught . Clearly is invulnerable to chakra rods as it wasn’t used , can tank all moukton as lord knows that also wasn’t used etc . Choosing to fight your enemy in a way to play with them is what Madara was going for . J mean his clones did less to A4 than a noob Ms sasuke did to A4
Yeah don't strawman me and address what I've said.

1. No one claimed she was immune to it nor have I seen any suggestion of such in this thread. Does this mean that Mei, Gaara, and Ohnoki were immune as well or did they fight knowing that it was a tool Madara had in his possession. As we have seen with Ay his speed makes him less likely to be caught not immune. So what's the difference between him employing a strategy that worked for the most part compared to anyone else? The answer is nothing the others may not have been caught because they didn't leave an opening for genjutsu to be used.

2. No one claimed she was immune to chakra rods just that it she was stabbed by one that she was capable of pulling it out. So even if they were used it wouldn't be the be all end all of the battle.

3. Again strawmaning is a sign that you can't come up with a way to attack my actual argument. She has intimate knowledge on woodstyle it's why she knew right away what jutsu Madara was using. Saying she wouldn't be easily caught isn't the same as saying she is immune.

A4 was about to be killed by Madara while A4 was about to kill Sasuke. Also let's not pretend that Amateratsu is just some regular attack not to mention Ay purposefully chose to be injured by Sasuke's Amateratsu.
The same reason she was actually caught in moukton in the very same manga . Or do you not recall her being put to sleep by flower tree world ?
Flowering tree world doesn't speak for all woodstyle jutsu and you know it. Not only that but Ohnoki was the most cut out to deal with flowering tree world. Unless you think Madara's going to keep using a jutsu that has already been countered before. That's like saying because I couldn't counter Kirin that I also can't deal with Chidori because they are both lightning style.
issues with the believe however it lacks feats
As such you must also hold said belief for all techniques described to do things they haven’t shown

else double standards
Amateratsu lacks feats of killing anyone does that mean it can't? Kisame didn't die from Hirodura does that mean Moegi survives it as well because it hasn't been shown killing anyone?

When you don't have feats you use portrayal and the description of the jutsu. Byakugou has been stated to be able to regenerate limbs and organs from the user themselves. It is also hailed as the pinnacle of medical ninjutsu and chakra control. Why would I hold so much doubt about a jutsu when the user has regenerated pulverized organs and her spine it makes very little sense. Also it's not like Boruto doesn't also lend evidence to a majority of the things people talk about where Byakugou is concerned.
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
What is he capable of doing that the Madara clones aren't other than move faster? The fact of the matter is he isn't doing anything that they aren't capable of doing as well. In fact he was nearly killed by the same swords Tsunade was impaled with meaning that him using it to cut his own arm off doesn't mean as much as you think it does. Okay let's say that she is 100% going to die if her head is cut off even with Byakugou. If the weakness of her technique is that obvious and her head is something that she knows she has to protect above all else why wouldn't she guard it? Also why wouldn't Byakugou heal the damage to her neck as whatever is slicing it passes through? Hell she might even purposefully leave an opening so she has a chance to counterattack.

Yeah don't strawman me and address what I've said.

1. No one claimed she was immune to it nor have I seen any suggestion of such in this thread. Does this mean that Mei, Gaara, and Ohnoki were immune as well or did they fight knowing that it was a tool Madara had in his possession. As we have seen with Ay his speed makes him less likely to be caught not immune. So what's the difference between him employing a strategy that worked for the most part compared to anyone else? The answer is nothing the others may not have been caught because they didn't leave an opening for genjutsu to be used.

2. No one claimed she was immune to chakra rods just that it she was stabbed by one that she was capable of pulling it out. So even if they were used it wouldn't be the be all end all of the battle.

3. Again strawmaning is a sign that you can't come up with a way to attack my actual argument. She has intimate knowledge on woodstyle it's why she knew right away what jutsu Madara was using. Saying she wouldn't be easily caught isn't the same as saying she is immune.

A4 was about to be killed by Madara while A4 was about to kill Sasuke. Also let's not pretend that Amateratsu is just some regular attack not to mention Ay purposefully chose to be injured by Sasuke's Amateratsu.

Flowering tree world doesn't speak for all woodstyle jutsu and you know it. Not only that but Ohnoki was the most cut out to deal with flowering tree world. Unless you think Madara's going to keep using a jutsu that has already been countered before. That's like saying because I couldn't counter Kirin that I also can't deal with Chidori because they are both lightning style.

Amateratsu lacks feats of killing anyone does that mean it can't? Kisame didn't die from Hirodura does that mean Moegi survives it as well because it hasn't been shown killing anyone?

When you don't have feats you use portrayal and the description of the jutsu. Byakugou has been stated to be able to regenerate limbs and organs from the user themselves. It is also hailed as the pinnacle of medical ninjutsu and chakra control. Why would I hold so much doubt about a jutsu when the user has regenerated pulverized organs and her spine it makes very little sense. Also it's not like Boruto doesn't also lend evidence to a majority of the things people talk about where Byakugou is concerned.
But not regrowing a head. Do you agree on this

or are you saying because Madara didn’t behead tsunade it’s impossible for anyone weaker to do so

because I can spin this round noob sasuke made A4 loose a hand. So unless your thought process is noob sasuke > 5 susanoo clones

then not sure why your post is so long
 

Nali

Active Member
But not regrowing a head. Do you agree on this

or are you saying because Madara didn’t behead tsunade it’s impossible for anyone weaker to do so

because I can spin this round noob sasuke made A4 loose a hand. So unless your thought process is noob sasuke > 5 susanoo clones

then not sure why your post is so long
Stop the fraud. madara did not behead her because he too understood that he could not kill her. wake up honey.
 

Troyse22

Shuts down the Sannin camp
Kisame can die to a freaking pencil he ain't shit. :hmpf

"If that hit me even I would get a hole in me"

Turrin camp - "Kisame said that pencil almost vaporized him in a Jinton like fashion"




yet in the databook kishimoto points out that the tsunade's regenerating technique is "the ultimate regeneration technique"

Primary source>secondary source

Kisame has the best (non god tier) Regen feats in the manga bar NONE.

We see Kisame practically bisected and his organs obliterated Regen and stand on his feet in a single panel. He regenerated grievous, mortal wounds faster than Tsunade has healed scratches.
 

Troyse22

Shuts down the Sannin camp
Everyone - "A4 blitzes the Mangekyo, outpaced Amaterasu and completely exited Sasukes vision"

Sannin camp - "yeah but Tsunade is a Sannin, and even though she has both piss poor mental and physical reactions relative to MS Sasuke, she catches A4s hands, restrains him, breaks every bone in his body and vaporizes him with a punch before he can react"
 

SakuraLover16

Sakura + Sasuke = Sarada
But not regrowing a head. Do you agree on this
Not necessarily because it has been shown in Boruto to be fully possible to do so. However my argument will never hinge on whether or not she can regrow a head in the first place. It's just foolish to believe that if that was her weakness she wouldn't know or be capable of protecting her head in the first place.
or are you saying because Madara didn’t behead tsunade it’s impossible for anyone weaker to do so
I didn't say that however to believe Madara wouldn't be serious about killing Tsunade would be outright false considering he said he would do so for the simple fact that she was Hashirama's offspring and actually made attempts on her life multiple times even when he was disappearing because Edo Tensei was released. So our only options are: A. He never tried (unlikely he wanted her dead, knew she could regenerate, she was the medic, and still tried despite her regeneration being active), B. She never gave him the chance (also a a little unlikely but not as much as A he would have at the minimum thought of it as one of the first things to do), C. He did but she healed before it could become unattached (likely because Byakugou starts healing the instant an injury is made as long as the wound isn't obstructed, D. Regenerated a head (very unlikely but not impossible due to Boruto. However I'd never use this to win an argument anyhow), E. The other Kage interfered with the attempt (This is a possibility however while she was fighting the Raikage was sure that she would more likely tire out than die while she was fighting on her own)
because I can spin this round noob sasuke made A4 loose a hand. So unless your thought process is noob sasuke > 5 susanoo clones
I've adressed that in my previous post already feel free to read it.
then not sure why your post is so long
It's because you tried to strawman me. If you weren't going to take the time to read why bother replying to me in the first place?
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
Not necessarily because it has been shown in Boruto to be fully possible to do so.
Where has Byakuyo shown this in Boruto ? Did Sakura do it in the recent chapter or something ? I mean if true then I concede immediately
However my argument will never hinge on whether or not she can regrow a head in the first place. It's just foolish to believe that if that was her weakness she wouldn't know or be capable of protecting her head in the first place.
She does know why would she. She said I can regrow limbs and organs she never said I can regrow my head or my full body
I didn't say that however to believe Madara wouldn't be serious about killing Tsunade would be outright false
And yet we know he was pussy footing till he got serious and used PS. you can’t say Madara intended to kill her and was fighting seriously when we know he was holding back his full abilities .
considering he said he would do so for the simple fact that she was Hashirama's offspring and actually made attempts on her life multiple times even when he was disappearing because Edo Tensei was released. So our only options are: A. He never tried (unlikely he wanted her dead, knew she could regenerate, she was the medic, and still tried despite her regeneration being active), B. She never gave him the chance (also a a little unlikely but not as much as A he would have at the minimum thought of it as one of the first things to do), C. He did but she healed before it could become unattached (likely because Byakugou starts healing the instant an injury is made as long as the wound isn't obstructed, D. Regenerated a head (very unlikely but not impossible due to Boruto. However I'd never use this to win an argument anyhow), E. The other Kage interfered with the attempt (This is a possibility however while she was fighting the Raikage was sure that she would more likely tire out than die while she was fighting on her own)

I've adressed that in my previous post already feel free to read it.

It's because you tried to strawman me. If you weren't going to take the time to read why bother replying to me in the first place?
See above
 

Troyse22

Shuts down the Sannin camp
Not necessarily because it has been shown in Boruto to be fully possible to do so. However my argument will never hinge on whether or not she can regrow a head in the first place. It's just foolish to believe that if that was her weakness she wouldn't know or be capable of protecting her head in the first place.

I didn't say that however to believe Madara wouldn't be serious about killing Tsunade would be outright false considering he said he would do so for the simple fact that she was Hashirama's offspring and actually made attempts on her life multiple times even when he was disappearing because Edo Tensei was released. So our only options are: A. He never tried (unlikely he wanted her dead, knew she could regenerate, she was the medic, and still tried despite her regeneration being active), B. She never gave him the chance (also a a little unlikely but not as much as A he would have at the minimum thought of it as one of the first things to do), C. He did but she healed before it could become unattached (likely because Byakugou starts healing the instant an injury is made as long as the wound isn't obstructed, D. Regenerated a head (very unlikely but not impossible due to Boruto. However I'd never use this to win an argument anyhow), E. The other Kage interfered with the attempt (This is a possibility however while she was fighting the Raikage was sure that she would more likely tire out than die while she was fighting on her own)

I've adressed that in my previous post already feel free to read it.

It's because you tried to strawman me. If you weren't going to take the time to read why bother replying to me in the first place?

Was possible pre Boruto as Kabuto turned Orochimarus head to mush and Oro Oral rebirthed it.

The feats just don't transfer to Tsunade
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
Ay4 can blitz Tsunade, but he can't kill Tsunade. It ultimately comes down to (effective) stamina, Tsunade outlasts Ay4 and murders him.

Either that or Tsunade figures out Ay4's attack pattern one time or another and puts her fist in the right spot.
 

SakuraLover16

Sakura + Sasuke = Sarada
Tsunade: *Attacks in Tandem with a lightened A4 appearing after Madara has barely moved two feet*

Supposedly piss poor mental and physical reactions no one is saying she is a speedster but dang the downplay.
 

Troyse22

Shuts down the Sannin camp
Tsunade: *Attacks in Tandem with a lightened A4 appearing after Madara has barely moved two feet*

Supposedly piss poor mental and physical reactions no one is saying she is a speedster but dang the downplay.

Can't have it both ways.

Either assert she's just as fast as lightened ay or she's slow.
 

Nali

Active Member
if madara could kill her by cutting off her head then why didn't he?
why even at the end when she no longer had the byakugou he cut her at the waist?
this means that he tried to behead her but he failed.
 

Impulse785

Well-Known Member
If Oro can do it I guess :hestonpls

After all they share a title :tiredpepe
Tsunade can do it because Orochimaru can?:scoobysus

if madara could kill her by cutting off her head then why didn't he?
why even at the end when she no longer had the byakugou he cut her at the waist?
this means that he tried to behead her but he failed.
I mean cut someone head off their body can be done by being blitz them along you have the power to do it

Or just huge amount of power Madara could of if he wanted to with his V4/Perfect Susanoo he decided to let the 5 kages live

Also decapitation is probably worse than her injury on the waist like how does she regrow her head
 

SakuraLover16

Sakura + Sasuke = Sarada
Where has Byakuyo shown this in Boruto ? Did Sakura do it in the recent chapter or something ? I mean if true then I concede immediately
No. Orochimaru and Victor use what is called a regeneration technique that works by performing a handseal before or after they have been injured in order to heal said damage. Tsunade and Sakura don't have to perform handseal once they activate Byakugou.
She does know why would she. She said I can regrow limbs and organs she never said I can regrow my head or my full body
I think you may be a bit confused what do you think the head is? Skin, bones, muscle, cells, etc. I have no idea why you said full body I'm a bit confused.
And yet we know he was pussy footing till he got serious and used PS. you can’t say Madara intended to kill her and was fighting seriously when we know he was holding back his full abilities .
Except he did.... He did the same to everyone. He was even embarrassed that he had to show them Susanoo again. Just because Madara didn't pull out PS from the get go doesn't mean he didn't try. You usually don't pull out your trump card unless you need to not just because you can. Without his Golem Hashi is still founders tier the same applies to Madara.
See above
No need I've already adressed it.
Was possible pre Boruto as Kabuto turned Orochimarus head to mush and Oro Oral rebirthed it.

The feats just don't transfer to Tsunade
I didn't use pre Boruto because I'm going off of Boruto as well. The fact that there is a jutsu that can regenerate heads and limbs with a single handseal before or after damage. Is evidence that the pinnacle of medical ninjutsu should be able to do the same.
Tsunade can regrow her head
:confusedjr
What?
I don't think I've ever outright stated it was a thing. Just that there is a possibility (A pretty strong one) that it can and I've also stated multiple times even where you read it that I would never use something like that to argue whether or not Tsunade wins a match. I've stated it so much it's almost implied at this point.
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
No. Orochimaru and Victor use what is called a regeneration technique that works by performing a handseal before or after they have been injured in order to heal said damage. Tsunade and Sakura don't have to perform handseal once they activate Byakugou.
This has nothing do with the question I asked though
I mean you said she could regrow her head then mentioned something in Boruto . I asked where
I think you may be a bit confused what do you think the head is? Skin, bones, muscle, cells, etc. I have no idea why you said full body I'm a bit confused.
Brain you know and head where the source of her seal is .
Except he did.... He did the same to everyone. He was even embarrassed that he had to show them Susanoo again. Just because Madara didn't pull out PS from the get go doesn't mean he didn't try. You usually don't pull out your trump card unless you need to not just because you can. Without his Golem Hashi is still founders tier the same applies to Madara.
Say hi to Onoki and his jinton then
Or sasuke and his susanoo spamming
No need I've already adressed it.

I didn't use pre Boruto because I'm going off of Boruto as well. The fact that there is a jutsu that can regenerate heads and limbs with a single handseal before or after damage. Is evidence that the pinnacle of medical ninjutsu should be able to do the same.

I don't think I've ever outright stated it was a thing. Just that there is a possibility (A pretty strong one) that it can and I've also stated multiple times even where you read it that I would never use something like that to argue whether or not Tsunade wins a match. I've stated it so much it's almost implied at this point.
Lol
 

SakuraLover16

Sakura + Sasuke = Sarada
This has nothing do with the question I asked though
I mean you said she could regrow her head then mentioned something in Boruto . I asked where
Literally right in what you quoted.
Brain you know and head where the source of her seal is .
When the seal is opened all of that stored chakra is released into the body. If there is any chakra left after it's use the seal will reform in the same spot.
Say hi to Onoki and his jinton then
Or sasuke and his susanoo spamming
Kekei genkai and trump card aren't the same sir...
Concession accepted.
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
Literally right in what you quoted.

When the seal is opened all of that stored chakra is released into the body. If there is any chakra left after it's use the seal will reform in the same spot.

Kekei genkai and trump card aren't the same sir...

Concession accepted.
So onoki kekkei genkai isn’t his trump card ?
You mean he has a stronger move in stock
Please show me when he used something above Jinton
 

Charmed

Forever Charmed
Ei has the advantage.
He'll eventually cut Tsunade's head (same way he cut his arm) and end the match.
Raikage wins highdiff because, even tho he's fastrr than Tsunade, most of Ei4's attacks can easily be healed by Ninpo Sozo Saisei Byakugou no jutsu. Tsunade will have a hard time landing hits on Ei4; katsuyu too. Even if they land a hit, Ei4 wont recieve much damage thanx to RnY. I doubt Ranshinsho would work on Ei4 (if he has RnY) but evil medical ninjutsu, like the one she was gonna use to "heal" Orochimaru would be deadly.

Overall it's an interesting match.
😋
 

SakuraLover16

Sakura + Sasuke = Sarada
So onoki kekkei genkai isn’t his trump card ?
You mean he has a stronger move in stock
Please show me when he used something above Jinton
Let me ask you a question. Can something not be two things at the same time?

Here is a little scenario. I inject 10 people with this extremely dangerous flesh eating virus and nine of those people die horrifically painful deaths while the last person is perfectly fine. Does the extremely dangerous flesh eating virus stop being an extremely dangerous flesh eating virus in general? The answer would be no.

Does an exception to a rule/pattern mean that the rule/pattern no longer applies anymore? The answer is no.

In every fight we've seen in the manga. The battle progresses in intensity saving your most powerful move for last doesn't mean you aren't using your full strength.

By the way a trump card doesn't have to be your strongest attack. It's something valuable that can be used especially in a surprise to gain an advantage.

Also Madara did use PS twice.
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
Let me ask you a question. Can something not be two things at the same time?

Here is a little scenario. I inject 10 people with this extremely dangerous flesh eating virus and nine of those people die horrifically painful deaths while the last person is perfectly fine. Does the extremely dangerous flesh eating virus stop being an extremely dangerous flesh eating virus in general? The answer would be no.

Does an exception to a rule/pattern mean that the rule/pattern no longer applies anymore? The answer is no.

In every fight we've seen in the manga. The battle progresses in intensity saving your most powerful move for last doesn't mean you aren't using your full strength.

By the way a trump card doesn't have to be your strongest attack. It's something valuable that can be used especially in a surprise to gain an advantage.

Also Madara did use PS twice.
You didn’t answer my direct question
PS is also a KKG as is moukton btw
Battle progression is the Sannin excuse though. It’s entirely up to the ninja who is fighting Onoki always starts with jinton
Sasuke starts with his KKg susanoo also his trump card
Deidara started with C4 against Onoki
Kabuto started with Sm against the uchiha brothers and so on
 
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