Tiers So many "I told you so's"

Freechoice

Freechoice
I never said Zoro is Luffy's precise equal. I have been saying from the start Luffy wins but it is an extreme difficulty fight and that won't change. That is what I mean by Zoro not falling behind. He will never be eclipsed. Zoro as a "side character" and "subordinate" is something unique to One Piece in that Oda gives him too much respect to be thrown away into a different tier from the main. From pre-skip when he fought Luffy evenly or did just about as well against the same opponent in Wiper. To now on the rooftop when he stood shoulder to shoulder with Luffy.

Luffy received most of the attention from the Yonkou because he was the biggest aggressor. Zoro decided his main goal was protecting Luffy whereas Luffy's was to attack. Yet Zoro still showed us why he was on the same level of Luffy in the course of protecting Luffy. He showed great defense, reaction, and offense. The only time it was really a 1 on 1 between Kaido and Luffy Luffy got two-shotted. And the only time it was a 1 on 1 skirmish between Kaido and Zoro, Zoro was too incredibly injured yet he still landed Ashura before kaido was able to attack him and scar him.

And this is coming right after major Luffy focus with Luffy powering immensely with G4 and Doffy fight, then against Cracker and finally against Katakuri. I don't know if you remember but many people were calling Zoro a complete weakling compared to Luffy after the Kata fight. And what did that weakling do then? Stand shoulder to shoulder with Luffy and fight 2 Yonkou despite all the attention and powerups Luffy got. Oda gives Zoro too much respect to make him fall behind. He has Luffy say multiple times that Zoro is a great fighter and he has utmost faith in Zoro's power. He has surrounding people comment at how shocked they are that Zoro isn't the captain. He gives Zoro parallels to the right hand man of the Pirate King who is called his partner. He makes Zoro a "supernova" as well an equal title to Luffy despite being a subordinate. The greatest Haki powerup in the entire series he gives to Zoro literally minutes after he gives it to Luffy.

You talk about how Zoro would never follow someone weaker than him but also keep in mind that Luffy doesn't want a right hand man who is far weaker than him either. He wants a powerhouse who can stand at his side and that is why he is happy at Zoro's goal to be the strongest.

Most people agree that it is a high difficulty fight (I favor extreme) but we have some who believe he gets thrashed and in fact Luffy solos all the strawhats. Which is ludicrous and always will be. And I guess we will wait for the next time when they are fighting side by side for Oda to correct that.

I think high diff is completely reasonable and the most likely to occur would they actually fight.

Actually put on paper what Luffy has vs what Zoro has in regards to Haki and Zoro just falls short in all aspects. It just doesn't scream extreme diff fight like Akainu vs Aokiji does.

I think to suggest Zoro is an extreme diff fight for Luffy is as ridiculous as people saying Luffy mid diffs Zoro.

The middle of the two extremes is the most sensible.
 

Rp4lyf

Well-Known Member
I think high diff is completely reasonable and the most likely to occur would they actually fight.

Actually put on paper what Luffy has vs what Zoro has in regards to Haki and Zoro just falls short in all aspects. It just doesn't scream extreme diff fight like Akainu vs Aokiji does.

I think to suggest Zoro is an extreme diff fight for Luffy is as ridiculous as people saying Luffy mid diffs Zoro.

The middle of the two extremes is the most sensible.
Luffy does mid diff Zoro right now at the best. Low diff if we being serious.

When Zoro get Nidai kitestu it will him.pushing Luffy to Mid- High diff.

Luffy was always a tier ahead of Zoro. Currenty he is 2 tiers ahead of Zoro.
 

Shrike

Moderator
I never said Zoro is Luffy's precise equal. I have been saying from the start Luffy wins but it is an extreme difficulty fight and that won't change. That is what I mean by Zoro not falling behind. He will never be eclipsed. Zoro as a "side character" and "subordinate" is something unique to One Piece in that Oda gives him too much respect to be thrown away into a different tier from the main. From pre-skip when he fought Luffy evenly or did just about as well against the same opponent in Wiper. To now on the rooftop when he stood shoulder to shoulder with Luffy.

Luffy received most of the attention from the Yonkou because he was the biggest aggressor. Zoro decided his main goal was protecting Luffy whereas Luffy's was to attack. Yet Zoro still showed us why he was on the same level of Luffy in the course of protecting Luffy. He showed great defense, reaction, and offense. The only time it was really a 1 on 1 between Kaido and Luffy Luffy got two-shotted. And the only time it was a 1 on 1 skirmish between Kaido and Zoro, Zoro was too incredibly injured yet he still landed Ashura before kaido was able to attack him and scar him.

And this is coming right after major Luffy focus with Luffy powering immensely with G4 and Doffy fight, then against Cracker and finally against Katakuri. I don't know if you remember but many people were calling Zoro a complete weakling compared to Luffy after the Kata fight. And what did that weakling do then? Stand shoulder to shoulder with Luffy and fight 2 Yonkou despite all the attention and powerups Luffy got. Oda gives Zoro too much respect to make him fall behind. He has Luffy say multiple times that Zoro is a great fighter and he has utmost faith in Zoro's power. He has surrounding people comment at how shocked they are that Zoro isn't the captain. He gives Zoro parallels to the right hand man of the Pirate King who is called his partner. He makes Zoro a "supernova" as well an equal title to Luffy despite being a subordinate. The greatest Haki powerup in the entire series he gives to Zoro literally minutes after he gives it to Luffy.

You talk about how Zoro would never follow someone weaker than him but also keep in mind that Luffy doesn't want a right hand man who is far weaker than him either. He wants a powerhouse who can stand at his side and that is why he is happy at Zoro's goal to be the strongest.

Most people agree that it is a high difficulty fight (I favor extreme) but we have some who believe he gets thrashed and in fact Luffy solos all the strawhats. Which is ludicrous and always will be. And I guess we will wait for the next time when they are fighting side by side for Oda to correct that.
Thanks for explaining. I agree, Zoro will never be insignificant in power in general, relative to Luffy or not, Zoro is a pure fighter and will be the WSS and that's among the top 10 in the world. I thought you were saying that they are equals which is illogical to me as Oda simply never gave Zoro an opponent nearly as important as Luffy's.

The SH have a very clear hierarchy and no matter how much Sanji fans wanted him to be above Zoro in strength he won't be, same goes for Luffy and Zoro. They are still the M3 of course and will remain so until the very end. I know it's fluid as to what difficulty they give to each other and I'd simply always go with high. Maybe I am wrong and the M3 are closer to each other than that, maybe extreme is the way to go but I always view extreme as a fight that could go either way, and I just can't see Sanji winning against Zoro nor Zoro against Luffy. They are close but not too close imo.
 

Conxc

Well-Known Member
I think high diff is completely reasonable and the most likely to occur would they actually fight.

Actually put on paper what Luffy has vs what Zoro has in regards to Haki and Zoro just falls short in all aspects. It just doesn't scream extreme diff fight like Akainu vs Aokiji does.

I think to suggest Zoro is an extreme diff fight for Luffy is as ridiculous as people saying Luffy mid diffs Zoro.

The middle of the two extremes is the most sensible.
Something of actual substance from Freechoice??!! :crazwhat What a weird day.

I never said Zoro is Luffy's precise equal. I have been saying from the start Luffy wins but it is an extreme difficulty fight and that won't change. That is what I mean by Zoro not falling behind. He will never be eclipsed. Zoro as a "side character" and "subordinate" is something unique to One Piece in that Oda gives him too much respect to be thrown away into a different tier from the main. From pre-skip when he fought Luffy evenly or did just about as well against the same opponent in Wiper. To now on the rooftop when he stood shoulder to shoulder with Luffy.

Luffy received most of the attention from the Yonkou because he was the biggest aggressor. Zoro decided his main goal was protecting Luffy whereas Luffy's was to attack. Yet Zoro still showed us why he was on the same level of Luffy in the course of protecting Luffy. He showed great defense, reaction, and offense. The only time it was really a 1 on 1 between Kaido and Luffy Luffy got two-shotted. And the only time it was a 1 on 1 skirmish between Kaido and Zoro, Zoro was too incredibly injured yet he still landed Ashura before kaido was able to attack him and scar him.

And this is coming right after major Luffy focus with Luffy powering immensely with G4 and Doffy fight, then against Cracker and finally against Katakuri. I don't know if you remember but many people were calling Zoro a complete weakling compared to Luffy after the Kata fight. And what did that weakling do then? Stand shoulder to shoulder with Luffy and fight 2 Yonkou despite all the attention and powerups Luffy got. Oda gives Zoro too much respect to make him fall behind. He has Luffy say multiple times that Zoro is a great fighter and he has utmost faith in Zoro's power. He has surrounding people comment at how shocked they are that Zoro isn't the captain. He gives Zoro parallels to the right hand man of the Pirate King who is called his partner. He makes Zoro a "supernova" as well an equal title to Luffy despite being a subordinate. The greatest Haki powerup in the entire series he gives to Zoro literally minutes after he gives it to Luffy.

You talk about how Zoro would never follow someone weaker than him but also keep in mind that Luffy doesn't want a right hand man who is far weaker than him either. He wants a powerhouse who can stand at his side and that is why he is happy at Zoro's goal to be the strongest.

Most people agree that it is a high difficulty fight (I favor extreme) but we have some who believe he gets thrashed and in fact Luffy solos all the strawhats. Which is ludicrous and always will be. And I guess we will wait for the next time when they are fighting side by side for Oda to correct that.
Very well said my man. You and @Shrike are my favorite mods. I love you guys. Now if you could just ban a short list of accounts I have in mind...:tomato
 
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Freechoice

Freechoice
Something of actual substance from Freechoice??!! :crazwhat What a weird day.


Very well said my man. You and @Shrike are my favorite mods. I love you guys. Now if you could just ban a short list of accounts I have in mind...:tomato
Motherfucker shut up I've been here for nearly a decade of course I post serious on occasion. I'll run circles around you in a debate big fella

@TheWiggian can verify this he's my biggest fan
 

Rp4lyf

Well-Known Member
One Piece power scaling isn't a mathematical formula. There is no reason storywise for PK Luffy to mid diff WSS Zoro. Oda will never ever write Luffy easily handling Zoro. Not ever.

If there is a time where Zoro and Luffy have a confrontation like in Baroque Works, they will evenly match each other, and people on the forums will cry foul and whine about powercreep. Like they haven't been reading One Piece for years.
Oda would do that if it meant him hammering the fact that Luffy is far above Zoro, which he has already done all throughout Wano.

It was the Zoro fanboys that forced him to crap/ take a dump on Zoro badly. Starting him with nerfed killer one kncockign him out, then Kaido disrecting him even with his storngest attack not doing anything to him.

If they had not done that, we would probably have better Zoro feats and portrayol but alas, you guys pissed him off when you started comparing him to Luffy. The more Zoro fanbiys talk crap, the more Oda dumps on him.
 

A Optimistic

Tirano
Moderator
@Chip Skylark

You’ve only been a member for two months and you’re already making “I told you so” threads?

You’re going to fit in quite well in this section. Looking forward to seeing your threads in 2022 bro.

:sayori
 

T.D.A

Well-Known Member
Oda would do that if it meant him hammering the fact that Luffy is far above Zoro, which he has already done all throughout Wano.

It was the Zoro fanboys that forced him to crap/ take a dump on Zoro badly. Starting him with nerfed killer one kncockign him out, then Kaido disrecting him even with his storngest attack not doing anything to him.

If they had not done that, we would probably have better Zoro feats and portrayol but alas, you guys pissed him off when you started comparing him to Luffy. The more Zoro fanbiys talk crap, the more Oda dumps on him.

Oda dumped on Zoro? :lmao

- Saved Luffy from Big Mom and Kaido
- temporarily stopped a combined Yonko attack
- carried on fighting 2 Yonko with broken bones
- scarred Kaido
- Unlocked Conqueror's Haki coating.
- Defeated YC1 King

Sounds like you might be the one on copium tbh
 

Rp4lyf

Well-Known Member
Oda dumped on Zoro? :lmao

- Saved Luffy from Big Mom and Kaido
- temporarily stopped a combined Yonko attack
- carried on fighting 2 Yonko with broken bones
- scarred Kaido
- Unlocked Conqueror's Haki coating.
- Defeated YC1 King

Sounds like you might be the one on copium tbh
Yes he did indeed dump on Zoro. All those feats and despite that Kaido never took him seriously at all. Oda put Zoro fans in their place. Now you guys are going mad. Continue doing that, Oda will keep on dumping on them. All those feats were Zoro beign supported by the supernova.

This is what Oda himself stated about Luffy in sbs 100 and Kaido viivre card from the databook. And that was Luffy from chapter 1003 pre coc coating and 1010.
 

convict

He who Greets with Fire
Moderator
Something of actual substance from Freechoice??!! :crazwhat What a weird day.


Very well said my man. You and @Shrike are my favorite mods. I love you guys. Now if you could just ban a short list of accounts I have in mind...:tomato

Appreciate it my boy @Shrike quoted me so I had to write with a bit of passion. Unfortunately I have noticed my passion in debating has waned significantly when I talk to most others because I just don't find it as engaging. This thread itself is an example of why.

@Freechoice loves to joke around but when he actually gets serious - which I have seen on occasion - he is on a very short list of people less than those I can count in a hand against whom I am actually scared of getting my ass handed to me in a debate so I have to keep my game face on when that happens :obamabury

PM me the list I bet it is similar to my own I have been developing
 

Conxc

Well-Known Member
Yes he did indeed dump on Zoro. All those feats and despite that Kaido never took him seriously at all. Oda put Zoro fans in their place. Now you guys are going mad. Continue doing that, Oda will keep on dumping on them. All those feats were Zoro beign supported by the supernova.

This is what Oda himself stated about Luffy in sbs 100 and Kaido viivre card from the databook. And that was Luffy from chapter 1003 pre coc coating and 1010.
:dead
 

MartyMcFly1

Danger is my middle name!
Yes he did indeed dump on Zoro. All those feats and despite that Kaido never took him seriously at all. Oda put Zoro fans in their place. Now you guys are going mad. Continue doing that, Oda will keep on dumping on them. All those feats were Zoro beign supported by the supernova.

This is what Oda himself stated about Luffy in sbs 100 and Kaido viivre card from the databook. And that was Luffy from chapter 1003 pre coc coating and 1010.
This is…impressive if nothing else.
 

Lmao

Well-Known Member
Mihawk pretty much confirmed Luffy > Zoro since Baratie arc, it boggles my mind this is still an argument 1000 chapters later.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with him being weaker, Luffy will become the strongest pirate ever after all - that's the MC destiny.
 

MartyMcFly1

Danger is my middle name!
Mihawk pretty much confirmed Luffy > Zoro since Baratie arc, it boggles my mind this is still an argument 1000 chapters later.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with him being weaker, Luffy will become the strongest pirate ever after all - that's the MC destiny.
Look through this thread and try to find anyone saying that Luffy is weaker than Zoro.
 

Lmao

Well-Known Member
Look through this thread and try to find anyone saying that Luffy is weaker than Zoro.
Not sure how this is relevant to what I said, I didn't accuse anyone of saying Luffy is weaker.

It has been established since the early days of One Piece Luffy > Zoro yet two decades later we're still discussing equality between the two.
 

Conxc

Well-Known Member
Obvious emphasis was on the degree of difficulty involved. That's literally the Opening post on this thread. Come on Conxc-Kun, you can do it :wtf
Saying Luffy wins no matter the difficulty means Luffy > Zoro. Not that theyre equals. Youre wrong lmfao.

Roger and WB were equals. Sakazuki was stronger than Kiji.
 

Kroczilla

Well-Known Member
Saying Luffy wins no matter the difficulty means Luffy > Zoro. Not that theyre equals. Youre wrong lmfao.

Roger and WB were equals. Sakazuki was stronger than Kiji.
Roger and WB never had a "to the death" match to determine a clear winner once and for all. Akainu and Aokiji did, taking 10 days and an island all to themselves in a bout sanctioned by the WG.

Extreme diff implies that the fight could realistically have gone either way with victory having been determined by "who wanted it more" as opposed to just a contest of strength. This in turn implies a lvl of evenness between the combatants, something that's certainly not the case with Luffy and Zoro.
 
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