Should we be more worried of the smiling face of tyranny obama presents or blatant and unabashful one trump presents

Sagebee

Sagebee

Well-Known Member
What best highlights the point I'm about to make is this malcolm x quote

"The white conservatives aren't friends of the Negro either, but they at least don't try to hide it. They are like wolves; they show their teeth in a snarl that keeps the Negro always aware of where he stands with them. But the white liberals are foxes, who also show their teeth to the Negro but pretend that they are smiling. The white liberals are more dangerous than the conservatives; they lure the Negro, and as the Negro runs from the growling wolf, he flees into the open jaws of the "smiling" fox."

Alot of people see Obama as some progressive figure that is a good normal guy that we celebrate in society but many people in academic circles and alternative news sources know much of his policies are pretty conservative and he was able to enact things in the detriment of people and we see bush as a horrible figure for pushing a war in false basis and responsible for the deaths of many innocent people when Obama did the same

Like the malcolm quote since he presents himself as a decent and agreeable person and not see him for what he is as another bought politician that's pandering that's also has bad policies as the conservatives do and is responsible for the deaths of many innocent to further corporate interest

And liberals in general many people sipping the koolaid that they are a party genuinely concerned of the betterment of society but they are like any other major political group lying to you and only serve various financial interests

While figures like trump is uniquely dangerous is that he was able to make it where people are now unabashful in the horrible things they say and do. And him and figures like him have the potential to actually transform and set back the country in a very negative way where now I'm starting to see if you have the right charismatic leader even today where people dont think the holocaust could happen today but after seeing the political rise of trump I now legitimately see that as a possiblity

So what form of tyranny and corruption do you think poses a bigger threat and deserves more concern

Obama's form packages bad things in an appealing way and we dont see the horrible things hes really doing

Trump is a buffoon so he won't as easily get away with the horrible things hes pushing but if a person comes that is also unabashful and blatantly trying to appeal to the darkest parts of society but is more intelligent to actually do what trump wants which is cease complete power of the country and be a dictator trump shown people that could happen

And I'll leave it on people in general need to awknowledge like business politicans are usually amoral and they only truly serve their financial interests any good they push is only for the purpose of getting political points to get elected again and have a few things to point to so history can write them in a favorable way
 
They are both terrible for different reasons.

Interested in @Inuhanyou , and @CrazyAries takes on this. I would tag Baroxio, but he states his last engagements with NTK/cafe related stuff effected his mental health.
 
Flow said:
They are both terrible for different reasons.

Interested in @Inuhanyou , and @CrazyAries takes on this. I would tag Baroxio, but he states his last engagements with NTK/cafe related stuff effected his mental health.
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It's the wrong type of question. Clinton, Obama and such present a facade of kind neoliberalism. Trump and desantis and the current gop represent outright hatred and fascism.

You can blame the center right neoliberals for enabling and helping the right to get to this point by creating a society full of unrest of stagnation, but they are not the same.

In that way, I can only say it's a lesser of two evils situation. Id definitely take Obama and Biden over the current far right, only if one did not eventually allow and set the conditions for the other.

But the reality is they are both symbols of a broken society that has a lot of unresolved institutional and structural issues which remain unresolved.

The real solution is unabashed intersectional leftism which does not give any quarter on either social or economic rights of the kind MLK championed.
 
Inuhanyou said:
It's the wrong type of question. Clinton, Obama and such present a facade of kind neoliberalism. Trump and desantis and the current gop represent outright hatred and fascism.

You can blame the center right neoliberals for enabling and helping the right to get to this point by creating a society full of unrest of stagnation, but they are not the same.

In that way, I can only say it's a lesser of two evils situation. Id definitely take Obama and Biden over the current far right, only if one did not eventually allow and set the conditions for the other.

But the reality is they are both symbols of a broken society that has a lot of unresolved institutional and structural issues which remain unresolved.

The real solution is unabashed intersectional leftism which does not give any quarter on either social or economic rights of the kind MLK championed.
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I agree with your overall analysis but what do you think it will take where we change the system where people pretty much picking our poison currently and most people aren't aware that's the true reality of our current system or want to be blind that's reality and sipping the koolaid each side is serving
 
Only reason I give it hope that there could be change sometime soon is Obama and trump were fundamentally elected because both sides awknowledge our system is broken and both represented something new to shake up the system in a positive way

The negative is after trump things have become even more polarizing and people become even more tribal and blindly loyal to their political affiliation
 
Sagebee said:
Only reason I give it hope that there could be change sometime soon is Obama and trump were fundamentally elected because both sides awknowledge our system is broken and both represented something new to shake up the system in a positive way

The negative is after trump things have become even more polarizing and people become even more tribal and blindly loyal to their political affiliation
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Given how obama' inauguration went it looked like america would finally be united. But whatever he did during those 2 terms made trump popular.
 
We should be afraid of how easy it was to program generations of people into believing these fools aren't all bought and paid for by the same Oligarchs. Burn it to the ground.
 
If you had asked me this question in 2016-17, I would tell you I would prefer a third Barack Obama term, if permitted. That’s because Obama made it easier for liberals and much of the left to “go to sleep.” Having Obama in the White House was reassuring at first, but the people who were paying attention had valid, serious concerns about the Democrat.

Now, I can’t answer the question about who’s more dangerous because, as @Inuhanyou stated, Barack Obama and Donald Trump represent two parts of a broken system. Obama puts a friendly face on empire while Trump holds up a mirror to American society and highlights the gaudiest, ugliest parts of it. (And that’s what many liberals and elites hate about him the most.)

In the end, both Obama and Trump are tools for the oligarchy.
  • Obama built his cabinet based on Citibank’s specifications.
  • We got the Affordable Care Act, a right-wing mandate for health insurance companies, instead of fully accessible and affordable health care for all.
  • Obama made the Bush tax cuts permanent.
  • Obama expanded George W. Bush’s wars from two to seven. Two of Obama’s most unforgivable decisions were our actions in Libya and Yemen. By 2016, Libya had open-air slave markets, and Saudi Arabia was conducting a genocide in Yemen.
  • Under Obama, at least 90% of U.S. drone strikes hit innocent targets. Among the victims during the Obama administration was . (Trump later called for the drone strike that killed Abdulrahman’s 8-year-old sister.) And Robert Gibbs, Obama’s press secretary, responded flippantly when reporters questioned him about the 16-year-old’s murder.
  • Trump put three far-right judges on the Supreme Court, with disastrous results.
  • Trump approved tax cuts for the wealthy in 2018 and oversaw the greatest upward transfer of wealth (during the pandemic).
  • Drone strikes increased by 432% under Trump.
  • Trump called for Qassem Solemani’s assassination and nearly started a major war.
Obama made many of his worst policies go down smoothly because he was a great speaker and kept his image clean. In some ways, Trump slowed down the right’s agenda, and one of the only good things Trump did was to kill the Trans-Pacific Partnership. But he had a net-negative effect on the U.S., the world, and general political discourse.

We need to move past figures like these, but that involves more people being honest about Obama, Trump, and the political parties they represent. We also need to ditch the binary way of thinking that has trapped us for most of the U.S.A.’s history.
 
Sagebee said:
I agree with your overall analysis but what do you think it will take where we change the system where people pretty much picking our poison currently and most people aren't aware that's the true reality of our current system or want to be blind that's reality and sipping the koolaid each side is serving
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That requires honest debate about the facts. And unfortunately, reality has been accused of having a political bias so many times it becomes hard to speak about it

What we are fighting is not a difference in opinion but a structure which has built corruption upon corruption upon corruption fully dependant on simply lying and making people stupid and ignorant. It's hard to fight that even in the best case scenario because people are generally biased towards stupidity and ignorance
 
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Canute87 said:
Given how obama' inauguration went it looked like america would finally be united. But whatever he did during those 2 terms made trump popular.
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It wasn't just Obama in a vacuum. It was Clinton, bush, and Obama together as well as Hillary's campaign that set the conditions for trump becoming popular.

A sense of business as usual that needed to be fixed and smug elitism of those in power(especially Clinton at that moment) as they advocated for nothing to help the people at large that drew people to this tv reality show host who never held back on what he said no matter what it was and projected fake confidence against all his gop opponents.

It's the same sentiment that got Bernie Sanders so close to winning against Hillary and got him to the runner up against Biden had the Dems not been so focused on destroying him. People trying to smash the status quo they can sense is wrong in different ways and finding different outlets for that either destructive or constructive.
 
The question presupposes that Obama was a tyrant.
:hm


Whatever Obama's disposition, I'll take Obama as dictator for life over having Trump or DeSantis as president for as little as one day.
 
Onomatopoeia said:
The question presupposes that Obama was a tyrant.
:hm


Whatever Obama's disposition, I'll take Obama as dictator for life over having Trump or DeSantis as president for as little as one day.
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What makes you assume if obama was allowed to be the dictator of the country he wouldn't be like trump or worse?
 
Magic said:
What fan fiction is this?
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Let me be clear I'm not saying trump is better than Obama

But the person is acting like they know Obama wouldn't be a worse dictator based on how Obama presents himself and assumes what he would do
 

I don't think I framed it as a loaded question it's possible your just viewing it as one based on whatever the lens of the world you look through
 
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