Sasuke and his Due

Glued

Banned
I don't know why, but the idea of Universal balance has always appealed to me. You do something negative and get a negative reaction. You do something positive and get a positive reaction. Kind of like taking loans and paying them off later. I borrow five dollars from a friend and then I pay the same amount later on.

In this manga as we all know all of the character have at some have had to, as I always say, pay the Devil his Due. The biggest example to me would be Naruto. Naruto use the Rasengan on Sasuke before Sasuke pulled out the chidori. Even though this story is very magical, and historically Ninjas don't adhere to many martial arts guidelines, this story follows some martial art principles. Naruto should only use ninjutsu skills to defend himself or to defend the ones he cares about, period. Naruto could have actually killed Sasuke right there on the rooftop. Naruto disgraced himself and his Sensei. After using the rasengan, Naruto couldn't even look Jman in the eye due to his shame. Do you think Jman taught him the rasengan, so Naruto could use to settle some petty dispute? Naruto is punished for it, because Sasuke became jealous of his power. Sasuke saw the power of the rasengan and it played a role in him deciding to leave. Had Naruto not shown off like an idiot, may be Sasuke wouldn't have become so jealous. Naruto is punished because of his pettiness and fails to retrieve Sasuke. Heck at VOTE, he even tells Sasuke he didn't want the fight, but he knows in his heart that messed up big. He paid his due and guess what he is still paying it. He blames himself for Sasuke leaving and for Sakura's suffering, so he tries to make things right. Problem is he doesn't realize that he has paid enough and Sasuke should pay his own bills.

Sakura has been shallow, disrespectful and downright vain. When Sasuke told her about what true isolation was like, do you think she learned to better appreciate her parents and friends. Quite the opposite, Sakura stated that if Sasuke were gone, then it wouldn't even matter that she had parents or friends, she would still be alone. She was even willing to abandon her friends and village for the sake of Sasuke. As a child Sakura was ridiculed for the size of her forehead. One would think that after such a situation, she would be more sympathetic to Lee and only saw the giant eyebrows. The beatings she got from the Sound 3 and Sasuke breaking her heart, well Sakura did it to herself. She pays, but personally I don't think she has paid enough.

Shikamaru, had he not been so lazy might have become a Jounin. Rather than watching clouds, he should have been taking responsibility as a shinobi. Maybe if he had trained more often, Asuma wouldn't have be six feet underground and Kurenai's baby wouldn't be fatherless. Oh yeah, Shikamaru paid his due for laziness.

Neji frikken mauled Hinata. He overkilled her. She tried to reach out to him and he tried to kill her. He tried to humiliate her and he tried to humiliate Naruto. He ridiculed Lee to no end. He psychologically tormented his foes. He was brutal and degraded other people. He could have beaten Naruto, but he preferred to humiliate the boy instead and believe me he paid for it. He than pays even more when he battles Kidomaru.

Itachi has lost his eyesight, that was part of his due.

Now we get to Sasuke. His case is not the same. He grew up in a very traumatizing background, so he has been exempt from paying some of his due. I mean the dude lost everything. He has been manipulated by Orochimaru and Itachi his entire life, obviously he needs to be cut some slack. However he did use a katon on Naruto, regardless of Katon jokes and story excitement, this was a deadly jutsu on the same rank as Gatsuga and meat tank, just check out Aoba as an example of this. He used Chidori after Naruto pulled out Rasengan knowing perfectly well that Chidori is a deadly jutsu. However this was after he was mentally raped by Itachi, so I guess we can exempt him again.

Then comes the Sound 4 and Sasuke decides to go with them. Now he can't really be exempt from this now, because Kakashi gave him the Talk. He decides taking out a loan from a person that is no doubt a loan shark, but he doesn't care anyway. He just goes along with them. Had Naruto, Shikamaru, Neji, Chouji and Kiba not chased him down guess what would happened, well Sasuke would have had to pay his due early and have his body taken right then and there by Orochimaru. He would have to pay up front and in full. However thanks to the sacrifices of Chouji, Akamaru, Naruto and Neji, who almost died, Sasuke was able to dodge the bill again. Chouji, Neji, Naruto and Akamaru paid Sasuke's debt for him. Neji was able to pay his own bills as well as Sasuke.

Sasuke tried to kill Naruto at VOTE with his bare hands, though he maybe partially exempt, because he might have been under the influence of CS. Much of his behavior remains a mystery.

Now underneath Orochimaru's tutelage, Sasuke just keeps taking out loan after loan. He signed the contract with the snakes, a very unscrupulous bunch if Manda is their representative. He knowingly stays with Orochimaru, despite prior knowledge that Oro has plans on taking his body, however this may have been just a farce. However Yamato sensed the Killer Intent.

Then comes the encounter with Team 7. Sasuke literally pointed his sword at Sakura and had Yamato not been there, she would have been left with only a single breast. There is the possibility he may have even used Kirin on them, but decided not to do it because Orochimaru was there.

He then kills Oro, but more than that. He not only kills Oro, he talks down to Oro very arrogantly, despite the fact that it was Orochimaru that taught all of his many jutsus. Heck without Orochimaru, there may not even be a Kirin for all we know. Not that Oro didn't deserve it after all he had done, Oro's debt is probably even bigger than Sasuke's.

Sasuke than frees a few prisoners and shows some mercy, obviously he has some memory of bonds and family, and Suigetsu even calls him such a leaf ninja.

Sasuke just happens to run into Deidara later on. He tries to capture, but was unable to. Then comes the death of Manda. Now I know Manda is a snake, and a cruel murderer, but he is still a living being and Sasuke sacrificed him to save his own hide. No matter what the circumstance, allowing someone to take the fall, there is always a consequence for that. Manda was boss snake and the snakes may decide to abandon Sasuke. He will become completely snakeless.

Then something happens in the forest. Sasuke destroys a Kage Bunshin of Naruto. It could have been the real Naruto, but he didn't care. We found out that all those earlier scenes, Sasuke really would have done it. No excuse, no exemption. He destroyed that KB and just didn't give a damn whether or not that was the real Naruto. His debts can now be seen clearly and man are the bills huge. After that he abandons Hebi. He gathered them only for the sole sake of keeping anyone from bothering his match with Itachi. If he wins, he will just leave them, doesn't care about them one grain. That is just selfish, he talked down to Oro for using people, well he just Hebi.

During this battle with Itachi, Sasuke has been the one at the lead and he doesn't seem to be suffering any consequences. Then he allows Oro out and guess what happens, it seems like finally there are going to be some payment for going to Orochimaru. However this is not the case. Sasuke was able to weasel out of his debt once again thanks to the hands of Itachi Uchiha. Sasuke need no longer fear being taken over by Orochimaru. Sasuke was once again saved from paying his debt.

Now Itachi is coming for Sasuke's eyes. I see two possibilities, Sasuke pays up with an eyeball or someone comes in gets killed and pays the Devil his Due.

Too long has Sasuke gone sacrificing and using others, displaying arrogance, looking down on others, being selfish and etc..

The time has come, the Devil is at his door and he wants interest.

Devil: Sasuke, come on out, time to pay your due.
Sasuke: Not now, I'll pay it later.
Devil: What do you mean not now, you've owed it, since the beginning of Part 2
Sasuke: I said I'll pay it later.
Devil: You do realize that your overdue and that you owe INTEREST!
Sasuke: I don't care, I'll pay the got dang interest.
Devil: I'm begging you Sasuke, you don't how much your going to have to pay. Even your debts have debts.
Sasuke: Yeah, yeah, whatever.

So what do you guys think? Will Sasuke finally have to pay the Devil his Due? Will he weasel himself out of paying the debts completely? Will someone else pay his bills for him?
 
I can't wait to see Sasuke lying half-dead with his eyes gouged out, wondering "Where did I go wrong?" Good read though.
 
Shikamaru, had he not been so lazy might have become a Jounin. Rather than watching clouds, he should have been taking responsibility as a shinobi. Maybe if he had trained more often, Asuma wouldn't have be six feet underground and Kurenai's baby wouldn't be fatherless. Oh yeah, Shikamaru paid his due for laziness.

Neji frikken mauled Hinata. He overkilled her. She tried to reach out to him and he tried to kill her. He tried to humiliate her and he tried to humiliate Naruto. He ridiculed Lee to no end. He psychologically tormented his foes. He was brutal and degraded other people. He could have beaten Naruto, but he preferred to humiliate the boy instead and believe me he paid for it. He than pays even more when he battles Kidomaru.

I fail to see where Shikamaru's laziness was something he deserved to "pay" for. And it wasn't because of him that Asuma died. Asuma died because he was so anxious to avenge his friends that instead of trying to capture Hidan and interrogate him, he just went in for the kill right away, attacking the man who hadn't even been the one that wanted to kill those monks.

What Shikamaru does deserve to pay for is the barbaric way he treated Hidan for revenge, I figure since Shikamaru feels that what goes around comes around, he should feel the same for himself. He felt Hidan should pay for killing a man who attacked him, I say then Shikamaru should feel that HE should pay for torturing Hidan. But of course, I'm sure that Shikamaru would have different rules for himself.:wink

And Neji paid for something during his fight with Kidoumaru? Uh, Kidoumaru's the only one who died, Neji is none the worse for wear after it, so no, I don't think that was his karmic payback.

You're wrong if you think that anyone but Hidan pays for anything in this series (unless Deidara's really dead, then I guess he was punished for who knows what).

Kankurou killed Sakon out of spite, never paid, unless his pain when Sasori poisoned him was a little payback, but like Neji, he's fine now.

I'd bet money that Pein won't pay for killing Jiraiya.

And I don't think Sasuke deserves to suffer, the boy's been suffering for so many years now, he hasn't done anything worse than anyone else in this series has done. There's no need for Sasuke to "pay", if anything, it's time for him to have some happiness in his life for a change. Maybe if Kakashi had cared as much about the Uchiha's deaths as he did about Asuma's, and had cared about Sasuke's feelings instead of saying Oh just forget about it and smile, Sasuke!, and offered help like he did for Shikamaru, then Sasuke would never have fought Naruto.
 
You make good points as always Firebat, but I think you're looking into this too deeply. The manga isn't a court of law. I think the only things he should be held accountable for is abandoning his village and attempting to kill his friends - twice. Both times there were extenuating circumstances but he was guilty. And even with this lighthanded view Sasuke will probably get away with less than a slap on the wrist if you look at other cases in the manga. Gaara for example was a bloodlusted killer who committed worse things; who has now been promoted to Kazekage and seemingly didn't pay more than losing to Naruto and realising that bonds are important.

I think Sasuke will pay, don't get me wrong; he'll lose in some kind of battle - I believe in cause and effect as well, but he hasn't done much more wrong than many of the characters. I don't think Konoha will hand him punishment; rather punishment will come in the form of losing a battle or a friend...
 
I find it hilarious that the OP excuses all of Part 1!Sasuke's actions. "He had a bad childhood" is something that applies to a lot of characters, yet only Sasuke gets a pass. Trying to set your friend on fire is justifiable because you're having a bad day, but that friend countering that means he's karma's bitch and must suffer. Bravo, sir.
 
To VonDoom: Yeah, Fugaku would probably be ashamed. Sasuke not only dishonored himself, but his father as well. Maybe that increases his due, but then again I'm not Kishi, just pulling at straws to why Naruto failed. Kishi may have excused some of Sasuke's misdeeds or perhaps he is just adding it to the bill.

As for Chouji, Neji and Akamaru, their suffering may increase Sasuke's debt or perhaps they paid off his debt.

To Krises: Gaara died and he lived in a world that was basically hell. He couldn't sleep for 15 years. No sleep for fifteen YEARS. If anything, the Universe owes him big time.

To NB: Kankuro showed signs of redemption by trying to save Gaara and he suffered from the poison.

As for laziness, I believe that very frowned upon in Japanese culture, not sure.
 
I don't know why, but the idea of Universal balance has always appealed to me. You do something negative and get a negative reaction. You do something positive and get a positive reaction. Kind of like taking loans and paying them off later. I borrow five dollars from a friend and then I pay the same amount later on.

True but to use this basis as a theory of universal balance is flawed, to use an example would it be alright for a man who cured say, breast cancer to molest children?
Curing cancer is of course a massive good, incalculable lives would be saved in subsequent history so it should be an almost overriding good that allows the doer to do whatever he wants, after all the universe owes him, right?
Moreover what of people who have no choice but to do evil? Like child soldiers? There is choice is fight or die most of the time, if they don't kill they don't get food/necessities for life, do they deserve to be punished simply due to the hand they were dealt by fate to be born in a broken country?
On the other side does that mean if you commit murder you deserve to die? It was Gandhi who said "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" and that is as relevant to day as it was back then.

In this manga as we all know all of the character have at some have had to, as I always say, pay the Devil his Due. The biggest example to me would be Naruto. Naruto use the Rasengan on Sasuke before Sasuke pulled out the chidori. Even though this story is very magical, and historically Ninjas don't adhere to many martial arts guidelines, this story follows some martial art principles. Naruto should only use ninjutsu skills to defend himself or to defend the ones he cares about, period.

...Sasuke was the one who used his Katon first, that could have really hurt Naruto, Naruto just used Kage Bunshin which wouldn't have killed Sasuke since he could control them.

Naruto could have actually killed Sasuke right there on the rooftop. Naruto disgraced himself and his Sensei. After using the rasengan, Naruto couldn't even look Jman in the eye due to his shame.
Sasuke also disgraced himself, they both took it too far using techniques that could actually kill or cripple each other, Sasuke started it with his Katon though.
The reason Naruto has shame is because Sasuke had already began breaking his bonds, he didn't care that he could have killed Naruto whereas Naruto did care he could have hurt Sasuke.

Do you think Jman taught him the rasengan, so Naruto could use to settle some petty dispute?
Do you think Sasuke should have used a Katon as strong as he did to settle a petty dispute?

Naruto is punished for it, because Sasuke became jealous of his power. Sasuke saw the power of the rasengan and it played a role in him deciding to leave.
No he saw Naruto's power, that's what made him leave.
He did say "Damn Naruto, how did he learn such a strong technique" he said...
"Naruto...how strong are you really."

Had Naruto not shown off like an idiot, may be Sasuke wouldn't have become so jealous.
Not quite, he already was feeling insecure and weak, if he was logical he'd have realised Naruto became stronger than him by following the path he refused to take.
Naruto is punished because of his pettiness and fails to retrieve Sasuke. Heck at VOTE, he even tells Sasuke he didn't want the fight, but he knows in his heart that messed up big.
Not quite, he fails to retrieve Sasuke because the only way that could happen would be to kill/cripple Sasuke, take their last charge, if Naruto seriously connected anywhere Sasuke would have been crippled because at this stage Sasuke doesn't have the recovery powers of Naruto.

he paid his due and guess what he is still paying it. He blames himself for Sasuke leaving and for Sakura's suffering, so he tries to make things right. Problem is he doesn't realize that he has paid enough and Sasuke should pay his own bills.
In a sense you're right, but really it's just that he blames himself for not being strong enough to take Sasuke back...even if it was against his will, which lead to Sakura being sad and Sasuke spending more than two years with Orochimaru.

Sakura has been shallow, disrespectful and downright vain. When Sasuke told her about what true isolation was like, do you think she learned to better appreciate her parents and friends. Quite the opposite, Sakura stated that if Sasuke were gone, then it wouldn't even matter that she had parents or friends, she would still be alone. She was even willing to abandon her friends and village for the sake of Sasuke.1. As a child Sakura was ridiculed for the size of her forehead. One would think that after such a situation, she would be more sympathetic to Lee and only saw the giant eyebrows. The beatings she got from the Sound 3 and Sasuke breaking her heart, well Sakura did it to herself2.. She pays, but personally I don't think she has paid enough.
1.It's called love, y'know?
2. Ummm, you mean the beating she took trying to protect her team mates and the man she loves? You mean Sasuke breaking her heart because he didn't want any bonds or anything distracting him?
Sorry this isn't some lesson in karma class, both those situations were important growth for Sakura and the second directly leads to Naruto making the promise that has twice threatened to make him give up his soul to the Kyuubi.

Shikamaru, had he not been so lazy might have become a Jounin. Rather than watching clouds, he should have been taking responsibility as a shinobi. Maybe if he had trained more often, Asuma wouldn't have be six feet underground and Kurenai's baby wouldn't be fatherless. Oh yeah, Shikamaru paid his due for laziness.
Here you're just wrong, there was nothing Shikamaru could have done to save Asuma, they had no way of knowing Hidan was immortal, and by the way wasn't Shikamaru an examiner for the Chuunin exams, something he mentioned a few times he was busy with?
Lastly Shikamaru's fighting style isn't one you can train to advance, it relies almost solely on how you apply the techniques and materials at your disposal/make use of terrain, its more like a game of chess than a list of techniques.
Also stamina isn't nearly so easy to train as other things and this is Shikamaru's main weakness.
Shikamaru paid for nothing, because he didn't owe anything.

Neji frikken mauled Hinata. He overkilled her. She tried to reach out to him and he tried to kill her
To be fair it was supposed to be combat 1v1 until a winner was decided, words had little or no place there and Hinata wouldn't give up even after Neji had clearly taken the advantage and knowing that the Jyuuken was a very deadly form of Taijutsu.
He tried to humiliate her and he tried to humiliate Naruto. He ridiculed Lee to no end. He psychologically tormented his foes. He was brutal and degraded other people.
Simply put Neji believed in destiny, those character didn't and challenged his beliefs and by beating them he sought to prove there was no way out of what destiny makes for someone.
But really Neji's childhood and experiences both serve to strengthen that belief, he is relegated to a branch family and cursed to be second-class just because of the fact his father was born minutes after his uncle.
Besides what he said about Hinata is more or less true and he didn't "Ridicule Lee to no end."
He could have beaten Naruto, but he preferred to humiliate the boy instead and believe me he paid for it.
Not really, he seemed to want to beat Naruto very quickly and it was only Naruto's massive stamina that saved him, moreover this doesn't work because Neji losing was a good thing, it freed him from his flawed beliefs and allowed him to grow.
He than pays even more when he battles Kidomaru.
How so? He admits Kidomaru is his worst possible match and a greater genius than himself, something which would have meant death if he followed his former beliefs but instead he decided to fight to his last and beat him, and he did.
Moreover the entire reason he went was to bring back his comrade knowing it meant risking his life, and he has to pay for that?
 
Itachi has lost his eyesight, that was part of his due.
...
We don't know that yet, he might have and he might not have moreover if he were to regain his eyesight what would that mean?

Now we get to Sasuke. His case is not the same. He grew up in a very traumatizing background, so he has been exempt from paying some of his due.

Yet this isn't the case with Neji or Naruto?

I mean the dude lost everything. He has been manipulated by Orochimaru and Itachi his entire life, obviously he needs to be cut some slack.
...uh what?
He was only manipulated by Itachi because he let himself be, if he was stronger he could have realised he didn't need to hate or obsess over Itachi and could take his time with his revenge.

However he did use a katon on Naruto, regardless of Katon jokes and story excitement, this was a deadly jutsu on the same rank as Gatsuga and meat tank, just check out Aoba as an example of this. He used Chidori after Naruto pulled out Rasengan knowing perfectly well that Chidori is a deadly jutsu. However this was after he was mentally raped by Itachi, so I guess we can exempt him again.
It doesn't work like that.
You can't just say, "we'll excuse him, because Itachi Tsukuyomi'd him." What if he had actually hurt or maimed Naruto?
What he should have been doing was gaining strength and comfort from his friends, not seeking power and breaking bonds.


Then comes the Sound 4 and Sasuke decides to go with them. Now he can't really be exempt from this now, because Kakashi gave him the “Talk.”1. He decides taking out a loan from a person that is no doubt a loan shark, but he doesn't care anyway. He just goes along with them. Had Naruto, Shikamaru, Neji, Chouji and Kiba not chased him down guess what would happened, well Sasuke would have had to pay his due early and have his body taken right then and there by Orochimaru. He would have to pay up front and in full. However thanks to the sacrifices of Chouji, Akamaru, Naruto and Neji, who almost died, Sasuke was able to dodge the bill again. Chouji, Neji, Naruto and Akamaru paid Sasuke's debt for him. Neji was able to pay his own bills as well as Sasuke.

You're reaching a little too far, Sasuke has free will, he can do whatever he wants and although there was obviously legal and social discretions morally he didn't do anything wrong until he tried to kill Naruto at the VoTE.

Sasuke tried to kill Naruto at VOTE with his bare hands, though he maybe partially exempt, because he might have been under the influence of CS. Much of his behavior remains a mystery.
Not likely, remember he's thinking about what Itachi said to him?
He clearly intended to kill Naruto to ge the MS.
Now underneath Orochimaru's tutelage, Sasuke just keeps taking out loan after loan. He signed the contract with the snakes, a very unscrupulous bunch if Manda is their representative. He knowingly stays with Orochimaru, despite prior knowledge that Oro has plans on taking his body, however this may have been just a farce. However Yamato sensed the Killer Intent.
That's because his goal is to kill Itachi, it doesn't matter if it was him or Orochimaru who did it but he thought that only he was capable of it.
Although I fail to see what is wrong with this...I don't think Sasuke ever killed children or anything under Orochimaru, hell he didn't kill anything.
He signed a contract with snakes, so what? Gamabunta isn't exactly a top fellow himself and Anko also has the snake contract doesn't she?
So he stayed under Orochimaru, known as the genius of the Sannin, plus given his backstab it is pretty obvious he didn't intend to let Orochimaru have his body.

Then comes the encounter with Team 7. Sasuke literally pointed his sword at Sakura and had Yamato not been there, she would have been left with only a single breast. There is the possibility he may have even used Kirin on them, but decided not to do it because Orochimaru was there.
Not only would he have killed Naruto but likely all the others if Orochimaru wasn't there, Orochimaru stopped him from using Kirin.

He then kills Oro, but more than that. He not only kills Oro, he talks down to Oro very arrogantly, despite the fact that it was Orochimaru that taught all of his many jutsus. Heck without Orochimaru, there may not even be a Kirin for all we know. Not that Oro didn't deserve it after all he had done, Oro's debt is probably even bigger than Sasuke's.
I hear Orochimaru gives candy to orphanages and works in a soup kitchen, he isn't evil, he's just misunderstood...
My point is that Sasuke betrayed the man who taught him for the last three years, he could have just left but instead he decided to kill him, what does that tell you about him?

Sasuke than frees a few prisoners and shows some mercy, obviously he has some memory of bonds and family, and Suigetsu even calls him such a leaf ninja.
It's one thing to be taught by a butcher, another to become one, Sasuke didn't want to end up like Orochimaru.

Sasuke just happens to run into Deidara later on. He tries to capture, but was unable to. Then comes the death of Manda. Now I know Manda is a snake, and a cruel murderer, but he is still a living being and Sasuke sacrificed him to save his own hide. No matter what the circumstance, allowing someone to take the fall, there is always a consequence for that. Manda was boss snake and the snakes may decide to abandon Sasuke. He will become completely snakeless.
Maybe, maybe not.
I'd go with not unless he does so consciously, the whole shedding the scales thing.

Then something happens in the forest. Sasuke destroys a Kage Bunshin of Naruto. It could have been the real Naruto, but he didn't care. We found out that all those earlier scenes, Sasuke really would have done it. No excuse, no exemption. He destroyed that KB and just didn't give a damn whether or not that was the real Naruto. His debts can now be seen clearly and man are the bills huge. After that he abandons Hebi. He gathered them only for the sole sake of keeping anyone from bothering his match with Itachi. If he wins, he will just leave them, doesn't care about them one grain. That is just selfish, he talked down to Oro for using people, well he just Hebi.
Couldn't agree more.

During this battle with Itachi, Sasuke has been the one at the lead and he doesn't seem to be suffering any consequences. Then he allows Oro out and guess what happens, it seems like finally there are going to be some payment for going to Orochimaru. However this is not the case. Sasuke was able to weasel out of his debt once again thanks to the hands of Itachi Uchiha. Sasuke need no longer fear being taken over by Orochimaru. Sasuke was once again saved from paying his debt.

Meh, I think that if Orochimaru won Sasuke would have been able to contain him eventually, he seemed like the Kyuubi to me.

Now Itachi is coming for Sasuke's eyes. I see two possibilities, Sasuke pays up with an eyeball or someone comes in gets killed and pays the Devil his Due.

Too long has Sasuke gone sacrificing and using others, displaying arrogance, looking down on others, being selfish and etc..

The time has come, the Devil is at his door and he wants interest.

Devil: Sasuke, come on out, time to pay your due.
Sasuke: Not now, I'll pay it later.
Devil: What do you mean not now, you've owed it, since the beginning of Part 2
Sasuke: I said I'll pay it later.
Devil: You do realize that your overdue and that you owe INTEREST!
Sasuke: I don't care, I'll pay the got dang interest.
Devil: I'm begging you Sasuke, you don't how much your going to have to pay. Even your debts have debts.
Sasuke: Yeah, yeah, whatever.

So what do you guys think? Will Sasuke finally have to pay the Devil his Due? Will he weasel himself out of paying the debts completely? Will someone else pay his bills for him?

Lol.
I think Sasuke is going to find a way out of it, it's supposed to be his year after all and it would be a poor year if he was blinded and killed.
Of course there is that theory that Kakashi knows Chiyo's resurrection jutsu...
 
I'm pretty sure that Sasuke paid all of the dues he ever needed to pay when his family was murdered

Let me repeat it

HIS FAMILY WAS MURDERED

It's like, amazing how many people can't grasp this
 
Excellent post, OP. Trust me, Sasuke will pay his dues in full.

But what you have to understand is Kishi is using a classic literary device here. He is pumping up Sasuke and allowing him to get away with everything, by the skin of his teeth in many an occasion. Therefore, when his fall does come, it will be spectacular simply because of the high pedestal he has been placed on.

+rep

I'm pretty sure that Sasuke paid all of the dues he ever needed to pay when his family was murdered

Let me repeat it

HIS FAMILY WAS MURDERED

It's like, amazing how many people can't grasp this

:laugh You can't pay your due for something in advance. That's why it is called paying your dues. You pay what is due. Sasuke's past does not excuse his actions one bit. It's like letting a murderer off because he was abused as a child.
 
I'm pretty sure that Sasuke paid all of the dues he ever needed to pay when his family was murdered

Let me repeat it

HIS FAMILY WAS MURDERED

It's like, amazing how many people can't grasp this

So, that's his best alibi if someone asks him why he attempted to kill his best friend twice, abandoned his village and turned coat to the enemy? Lol, please...

Sasuke lost his clan. Naruto was looked at as the 9-Tails incarnate which explains why he was scorned. Neji was apart of the Branch Hyuga. Not to mention his father sacrificed himself due to the fact that it was his "destiny" as a Branch member. Gaara was forced to become a Jinriuuki(sp?), had assassinated attempts on his life daily and was scorned by everyone. But Sasuke had it the worse, right? Give me a break...
 
I can't wait to see Sasuke lying half-dead with his eyes gouged out, wondering "Where did I go wrong?" Good read though.

you'll never see that

So, that's his best alibi if someone asks him why he attempted to kill his best friend twice, abandoned his village and turned coat to the enemy? Lol, please...

Sasuke lost his clan. Naruto was looked at as the 9-Tails incarnate which explains why he was scorned. Neji was apart of the Branch Hyuga. Not to mention his father sacrificed himself due to the fact that it was his "destiny" as a Branch member. Gaara was forced to become a Jinriuuki(sp?), had assassinated attempts on his life daily and was scorned by everyone. But Sasuke had it the worse, right? Give me a break...

lol, gaara could just ignore the murder attemps, they would never work anyway :zaru

naruto was just bullied

neji lost his dad, sasuke everyone :facepalm
 
naruto was just bullied

Just bullied? Just bullied?

The hell he was, he was actively scorned and isolated from any social involvement, the rest of the villages made a point of being cruel to him and treated him with disdain and remember there was also a rule that they could never tell tell Naruto about this so as far as he was concerned everybody was just being mean to him for no reason.

Imagine if you'd never had a friend or anyone who even acted like they cared about you, all your life, because everyone else saw you as nothing but a monster.

Go on really imagine what it's like because to me that's beyond just sad or unfortunate, it is horrible.

No one liked him, no one respected him, no one even acknowledged him!

Thus the reason Naruto is so dead set on proving himself to everyone.

To say he was "only bullied" is like saying "people in Sasuke's family died," so limited and dismissive in its scope it's almost offensive.

Gaara had it even worse! The only person who was nice to him did so in order to get close enough to kill him, he too was scorned for no reason he could discern... but he had to deal with it far longer than Naruto, he wasn't even considered a person; just a tool, a weapon to be made use of when it became apparent he couldn't be killed.

And Neji... he basically had to deal with the fact that he was destined to be a second rate citizen, Main family needs someone disposable? Call up the Branch House.

Branch house member acting up? Just destroy his brain, no chance to resist if the Main Branch member wants you dead you die.

No matter how skilled Neji was, and he was a prodigy, he could never make the transition from second class, and why? Because his father was born a few minutes later than Hiashi.

Moreover everything until his fight with Naruto just confirmed his beliefs, Lee couldn't beat him, Hinata couldn't beat him, he was a caged bird forever to be trapped by his destiny, free to grow only so far as his destiny would allow him and it didn't matter how strong he became because he could never break free of the Main Branch.

Thankfully Neji, Gaara and Naruto are past that dark stage, but it is nothing to be scoffed at and equal to Sasuke's pain.
 
Ironically, if Sasuke never tried to pursue his brother and did nothing, eventually he would have gotten blind, useless and kicked out of the akatsuki, he would eventually die of starvation as nobody has any money to give to a blind beggar.
 
I doubt Sasuke is going to get tortured or something. He did get humiliated by his brother in front of his rival, so things did sort of suck for him. Still, I'm sure has one or two more ass-whoopings waiting for him. That always happens to the Anti-Hero.
naruto was just bullied
He was completely dissed by society except for having an apartment and a Chunin with no Jutsu. Everyone still liked Sasuke in spite of his loss. He was lonely because he arrogantly withdrew himself from everyone else, as Kakashi pointed out during the old Bell Test.

A few other things to point out to the thread-starter. Gaara was the same way. He killed people mercilessly and disrespected his siblings. To me, just loosing to Naruto and having a jacked up family wasn't enough, and ironically, he was killed later on after becoming a Kage despite his criminality.
 
Ironically, if Sasuke never tried to pursue his brother and did nothing, eventually he would have gotten blind, useless and kicked out of the akatsuki, he would eventually die of starvation as nobody has any money to give to a blind beggar.

Exactly. If Sasuke really played it smart, he would've gotten stronger in Konoha and waited out his brother's blindness. Add to the fact that Itachi wanted his eyes desperately, he would've sought Sasuke out eventually to where the younger brother would commense to pwning...

...Guess he's not such a genius afterall.:zaru
 
While I think Sasuke will pay for some of the stuff he has done, I don't believe he is totally in the wrong. People say revenge is wrong, perhaps you should put yourself in their shoes. To me it's how you go about it really, and that is about the only part of sasuke's character I don't like. Friends mean alot to me, so I can sympathize with Naruto and Sakura, etc. I have no doubts Sasuke will pay, but for what and how much remains to be seen.
 
allowing him to get away with everything,

Sasuke's past does not excuse his actions one bit. It's like letting a murderer off because he was abused as a child.

Like he allowed Shikamaru to get away with hideously torturing Hidan for his own pleasure and revenge? 'cause even though Kakashi told Sasuke that getting revenge doesn't lead to happiness, we all saw that it sure was the key to Shikamaru's happiness.

So does Asuma dying and Shikamaru being upset about it excuse his action of torturing Hidan in the sickest, most sadistic manner possible? I guess it doesn't, since you said that Sasuke's tragedy doesn't excuse anything for him.

I'd hardly put Sasuke on the level of a murderer......he hasn't even killed anyone even though he's had oppurtunity.

Bottom line: Kishimoto said it was okay for Shikamaru to do whatever he wanted to Hidan out of revenge, so he has no right now to say Sasuke's a bad person for seeking revenge.
 
Like he allowed Shikamaru to get away with hideously torturing Hidan for his own pleasure and revenge? 'cause even though Kakashi told Sasuke that getting revenge doesn't lead to happiness, we all saw that it sure was the key to Shikamaru's happiness.

So does Asuma dying and Shikamaru being upset about it excuse his action of torturing Hidan in the sickest, most sadistic manner possible? I guess it doesn't, since you said that Sasuke's tragedy doesn't excuse anything for him.

I'd hardly put Sasuke on the level of a murderer......he hasn't even killed anyone even though he's had oppurtunity.

Bottom line: Kishimoto said it was okay for Shikamaru to do whatever he wanted to Hidan out of revenge, so he has no right now to say Sasuke's a bad person for seeking revenge.

Tell me something Bunny.
I'm sure being a hidan fan, you know that Hidan's religion believes in massacre.

Have you totally forgotten the monks that Hidan killed? Do you not realise that Hidan would have killed SHinobi if they ended up in Konoha?

Because from the looks of it you consider Shikamaru to be more evil than Hidan.
 
Tell me something Bunny.
I'm sure being a hidan fan, you know that Hidan's religion believes in massacre.

Have you totally forgotten the monks that Hidan killed? Do you not realise that Hidan would have killed SHinobi if they ended up in Konoha?

Because from the looks of it you consider Shikamaru to be more evil than Hidan.

Yes but Hidan has been influenced negatively by the Jashin doctrine. He's not all there, and he's a villain. Shikamaru's supposed to be a hero, so he should follow the codes of a hero. And what he did to Hidan was sick and depraved and cruel. And unnecessary, he just did it to make himself feel good by torturing Hidan, therefore he is no better than Hidan, but at least Kishimoto doesn't go around calling Hidan a hero.

And I've said before that it was really Kakuzu who wanted to kill the monks, he wanted the money and Hidan was uncomfortable killing religious people.

They all kill shinobi, so I don't see how Hidan's worse than anyone else if he kills shinobi. Konoha shinobi do it all the time.
 
Yes but Hidan has been influenced negatively by the Jashin doctrine. He's not all there, and he's a villain. Shikamaru's supposed to be a hero, so he should follow the codes of a hero. And what he did to Hidan was sick and depraved and cruel. And unnecessary, he just did it to make himself feel good by torturing Hidan, therefore he is no better than Hidan, but at least Kishimoto doesn't go around calling Hidan a hero.

And I've said before that it was really Kakuzu who wanted to kill the monks, he wanted the money and Hidan was uncomfortable killing religious people.

They all kill shinobi, so I don't see how Hidan's worse than anyone else if he kills shinobi. Konoha shinobi do it all the time.

heh i see.

But how do you supposed Shikamaru should have taken care of Hidan? The man can't die and as long as he was alive he would present a threat to Konoha.

Unless you wanted hidan's head to be kept in a jar at konoha or something.
 
As soon as Sasuke is within five miles of Konoha on his return after the battle is concluded, Gai is going to hit him at 300km/h with a Dynamic Entry to the face.
 
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