Physics in Fantasy Settings

Hiruma

The King has Come!
It's pissing me off lately when people point out plot holes and someone else just goes :

"These guys can create duplicates, make fire from nothing, and summon gigiantic frogs big as a forest and you're wondering about _________(insert plot hole)?"

This argument doesn't make sense because even in fantasy settings, the laws of physics still exist and normally, unless stated otherwise as a power or skill, the characters always adhere to it.

Case in point: If Naruto suddenly started walking on air without ANY EXPLANATION WHATSOEVER, you are not going to just brush it off. You can't, it's blatantly breaking the laws of physics and there's no explanation for it.

So, please, stop with all this. Even in fantasy settings, the laws of physics still exist and the characters and events ADHERE to these laws.
 
I know what your talking about and I pretty much agree. I like explanations for things too.

But in Naruto you have to allow a certain amount of leeway for things like that.
 
This argument doesn't make sense because even in fantasy settings, the laws of physics still exist and normally, unless stated otherwise as a power or skill, the characters always adhere to it.

I agree. But I think that Naruto simply operates under such a highly specialized and unique variant of the Laws of Physics, that past a certain point it isn't worth pondering the details of it.

For instance, what is the atomic mass of chakra and where in the periodic table does chakra fit? Is it a compound, an elementary particle, or a plasma? Correct Answer: Irrelevant.

Fantasy universes write their own laws as they see fit. Now if you see something that seems to violate the physical laws of the fantasy universe as they seem to be written, feel free to point it out.

Being a fantasy universe, Naruto runs on Narrativium, the miraculous proto-element that allows worlds to be shaped like discs and ride on the back of giant turtles. It also allows for the summoning of giant toads.
 
I understand about the chakra point, it's more a matter of even surface and obvious plot-holes exist or when they violate their own rules even. Nobody can talk about chakra's properties since there's always some fantasy setting, but still, unless states otherwise, the laws of physics are always adhered to.
 
I agree. Most of the laws of physics do apply in the Naruto world. Only the ones that are actually broken during the course of the series, and any other ones that would no longer apply as one of those laws being broken, don't apply.
 
The laws of physics dont apply 2 Naruto.
Examples of this: Walkin on walls and trees and stuff
.Walkin on Water
.Gaara hovering on sand
.Humans movin at super speed
It is fiction so people shouldnt get angry about it being impossible cos its not real
 
I know what you're saying but we need to reach a middle ground. Sometimes people use the laws of physics TOO much for a fantasy setting, not every minute law that not many people know about needs to be accounted for fantasy settings. There is a chance the mangaka has no idea about it and decided to go about his merry way writing the story.
 
Sarutobi700 said:
The laws of physics dont apply 2 Naruto.
Examples of this: Walkin on walls and trees and stuff
.Walkin on Water
.Gaara hovering on sand
.Humans movin at super speed
It is fiction so people shouldnt get angry about it being impossible cos its not real
Just because some laws don't apply, doesn't mean that none do. The world of Naruto would be INCREDIBLY different if none of the laws of physics applied.
 
Yes they do. Physics apply even if in fanatsy settings unless explained otherwise. Your walking on water, shunshin, and hovering feats are all explained, so it's a different story.
 
Yes they do. Physics apply even if in fanatsy settings unless explained otherwise. Your walking on water, shunshin, and hovering feats are all explained, so it's a different story.

Generally, the laws of physics apply only when the author wants them to. Being humans and depicting humans, this is quite often. I could even see the "walking on air" thing working without any explanation. In the atmosphere, air is air because the molecules are much farther apart than water molecules.

Thus to theoretically "walk" on air, all you'd have to do is adapt the water walking ninjutsu. It'd probably take a hell of a lot more chakra, but I could see it working.

Delta Shell said it best.
Let a story be a story.
 
Sarutobi700 said:
The laws of physics dont apply 2 Naruto.
Examples of this: Walkin on walls and trees and stuff
.Walkin on Water
.Gaara hovering on sand
.Humans movin at super speed
It is fiction so people shouldnt get angry about it being impossible cos its not real

No, laws of physics still apply.

People still fall down, not up. Water still ripples when you toss a rock into it. The air is not consistent enough to walk on, etc. etc.

As mentioned, no one is going to fly without explanation.

Obviously, given that it's fiction, the narrator has some control over the application of physics, but all the fundamental rules are still there. If Kishimoto wants to state the chakra can defy gravity, that is his decision; but as mentioned, gravity still exists.

The laws of physics are only stretched as far as they are displayed, but as shown, they are not eliminated.
 
For instance, what is the atomic mass of chakra and where in the periodic table does chakra fit? Is it a compound, an elementary particle, or a plasma?
it is supposed to be the invisible force that powers the universe so it would be beyond quantum level physics and the math for it would be pretty hard.
 
Kickero said:
For instance, what is the atomic mass of chakra and where in the periodic table does chakra fit? Is it a compound, an elementary particle, or a plasma?
There's a big problem with this line of thinking: chakra's a form of energy, not matter.
 
the thing that would bother me now is if they didnt at least try to explain it even if it defide conventional physics.

i would be bothered because they have explaind most of the things that involve questions like that.(walk on water, perform jutsu, chakra, summonings.) all of these even though do not fit with conventional physics at least have some explanation to them.

that is why i would like them to say something about walking on air as like on water. that the chakra is being concentrated in such a away as to stay standing on particles in the air. without detail and knowing that is impossible i will atleast be satisfied that they tried to tell instead of just throwing it in there and saying deal with it.
 
SpoonyBard said:
It's pissing me off lately when people point out plot holes and someone else just goes :

"These guys can create duplicates, make fire from nothing, and summon gigiantic frogs big as a forest and you're wondering about _________(insert plot hole)?"

This argument doesn't make sense because even in fantasy settings, the laws of physics still exist and normally, unless stated otherwise as a power or skill, the characters always adhere to it.

Case in point: If Naruto suddenly started walking on air without ANY EXPLANATION WHATSOEVER, you are not going to just brush it off. You can't, it's blatantly breaking the laws of physics and there's no explanation for it.

So, please, stop with all this. Even in fantasy settings, the laws of physics still exist and the characters and events ADHERE to these laws.

How can you insist the laws of physics exist in a world that isn't physical itself? If what you're saying is true, then everything in the world of Naruto corresponds to our world. Technically, meaning super-speed is out of the question, surviving smash-in collisions with rocks(without being that injured), out of the question. The truth is, it's a cartoon, that merely does its best to mimic our laws and throw away or improvise the ones that defy the creator's key idea. i.e. chakra, walking on water, etc.

SpoonyBard said:
This argument doesn't make sense because even in fantasy settings, the laws of physics still exist and normally, unless stated otherwise as a power or skill, the characters always adhere to it.


In this statement, you just contradicted yourself. You say even in fantasy
settings the law of physics exist, unless stated otherwise by a power, skill, or whatever...How can the laws of physics exist if they're defying them with skills, that are too supposedly based on our laws of physics? Not happening. Simply because it is a fantasy setting and it's laws are mimics of our own. So, technically a person can say 'These guys can create duplicates, make fire from nothing, and summon gigiantic frogs big as a forest and you're wondering about _________(insert plot hole)?'
 
Sarutobi700 said:
The laws of physics dont apply 2 Naruto.
Examples of this: Walkin on walls and trees and stuff
.Walkin on Water
.Gaara hovering on sand
.Humans movin at super speed
It is fiction so people shouldnt get angry about it being impossible cos its not real

Do you even know what the thread maker is talking about? The physics in Naruto revolve around the explanation and actions of Chakra, even though it's fiction the rules still apply to that aspect.

Same with FullMetal Alchemist, their physics revolve around Alchemy. Although it isn't confirmed truth in our world, they have numerous explanations and the laws aren't broken like DBZ where they say there is only 1 SSJ every thousand years but Vegeta, trunks, and gohan get it with no explanation at all.
 
MrBluesummers said:
How can you insist the laws of physics exist in a world that isn't physical itself? If what you're saying is true, then everything in the world of Naruto corresponds to our world. Technically, meaning super-speed is out of the question, surviving smash-in collisions with rocks(without being that injured), out of the question. The truth is, it's a cartoon, that merely does its best to mimic our laws and throw away or improvise the ones that defy the creator's key idea. i.e. chakra, walking on water, etc.




In this statement, you just contradicted yourself. You say even in fantasy
settings the law of physics exist, unless stated otherwise by a power, skill, or whatever...How can the laws of physics exist if they're defying them with skills, that are too supposedly based on our laws of physics? Not happening. Simply because it is a fantasy setting and it's laws are mimics of our own. So, technically a person can say 'These guys can create duplicates, make fire from nothing, and summon gigiantic frogs big as a forest and you're wondering about _________(insert plot hole)?'


If the laws of physics don't exist then simply put peopel won't fall down. They don't need to eat or breathe and lastly people will never die ever.
 
Thats Hollywood for you, stretching the truth to make a buck. Pretty much everything on TV or in the movies are not 100% accurate.

Even movies people thought was real, like Top Gun, had reality stretched to sell the story. Anything animated like Anime or Cartoons never keep to the ways of reality. Because what our imaginations create sells more than the boring mundane of reality.

I guarantee you, at some point in your youths you wanted to fly like Superman, or do magic like Harry Potter, or fight in space in Star Wars. Thats the stuff that sells. :p
 
101 said:
Do you even know what the thread maker is talking about? The physics in Naruto revolve around the explanation and actions of Chakra, even though it's fiction the rules still apply to that aspect.

Same with FullMetal Alchemist, their physics revolve around Alchemy. Although it isn't confirmed truth in our world, they have numerous explanations and the laws aren't broken like DBZ where they say there is only 1 SSJ every thousand years but Vegeta, trunks, and gohan get it with no explanation at all.


that is completly true we are not talking conventional physics we are talking the physics of the naruto world.
 
MrBluesummers said:
In this statement, you just contradicted yourself. You say even in fantasy settings the law of physics exist, unless stated otherwise by a power, skill, or whatever...How can the laws of physics exist if they're defying them with skills, that are too supposedly based on our laws of physics? Not happening. Simply because it is a fantasy setting and it's laws are mimics of our own.


first off he is not contradicting himself. he is saying that the physics of how things go up and down. action has an opposite reaction. things that are basic physics. maybe it could have been worded better, but most of us understood it.


MrBluesummers said:
So, technically a person can say 'These guys can create duplicates, make fire from nothing, and summon gigiantic frogs big as a forest and you're wondering about _________(insert plot hole)?'


no they can not because this is a scapegoat argument that does not work. if a person thinks there is a plot hole from how the physics have been set up in the world. if this is how the plot hole is brought about then it is impossible to use that line to argue it.

i will reuse the example in the thread start.

if we know how they walk on water.(this is to the physics of the world) and then out of no where we have someone start walking on air with no explanation then you can say plot hole.

with this example put the argument line next and tell me if that makes any sense to you at all.
 
SpoonyBard said:
If the laws of physics don't exist then simply put peopel won't fall down. They don't need to eat or breathe and lastly people will never die ever.


How can a cartoon have laws of physics? I doubt if you took note of a particular character falling throughout a whole season, due to the same circumstances it would end up equating. For starters, every character's hair doesn't maintain our laws of gravity, even when wet. So, in the end you must deduce that they strive to mimic our own laws. There are laws, but they obviously aren't our laws , simply because it isn't our world. I can jump 50 feet into the air just well as you can invade someone's mind with hereditary eyes. In any case, you say there are indeed the laws of physics in that world, as a matter of fact, our laws of physics. So, with that in mind, those laws of physics can be broken due to skills and jutsus, which would mean that those skills maintain their own laws of physics which don't adhere to the said laws....Right.
 
In any case, the physics of the Naruto world aren't consistant, so bearing an argument about its said consistancy is pointless. You could say Looney Tunes of physics. Yes, but they were hardly consistant and always changing, and so it is with Naruto. There are explanations, yes, but even then you can't bridge those explanations to our laws of physics. In in that concept, you are bound to have plot holes.
 
MrBluesummers said:
In any case, the physics of the Naruto world aren't consistant, so bearing an argument about its said consistancy is pointless. You could say Looney Tunes of physics. Yes, but they were hardly consistant and always changing, and so it is with Naruto. There are explanations, yes, but even then you can't bridge those explanations to our laws of physics. In in that concept, you are bound to have plot holes.

no you are not bound to have plot holes, if the creator of that world adheres to the physics that they have put out. you will get a plot hole if the creator pulls something out and it is against the other rules that have already been established to be true in that world.

if the creator leaves an explanation as to why this is possible then there is no plot hole.

but the basis of this thread is to say that people shouldn't be using this line as arguing why there is no plot hole.

"These guys can create duplicates, make fire from nothing, and summon gigiantic frogs big as a forest and you're wondering about _________(insert plot hole)?"
 
Of course there can be plot holes. The creator is a human being, who isn't perfect. The scenarios he's patched up with his own laws, have given way to unintended plot holes. I remember that Vash?! thing going on about one of the plot holes, actually. Either way, I enjoyed this debate. 8D
 
MrBluesummers said:
Of course there can be plot holes. The creator is a human being, who isn't perfect. The scenarios he's patched up with his own laws, have given way to unintended plot holes. I remember that Vash?! thing going on about one of the plot holes, actually. Either way, I enjoyed this debate. 8D

i do enjoy this debate and i did really enjoy the vash one too. the vash one his argument i didnt care too much for because he was mostly placing our physics on the naruto world.
 
Yes, of course there are plot holes. :p I just meant that it wasn't a valid way of explaning away the plot holes.
 
my problem with the story or said plot no jutsus arent so much something that might contradict the laws of physics, but moreso something that contradicts basic human knoweldge!

case in point, if you were oro and u wanted to destroy the leaf, wouldnt u use edo tensei jutsu before the fight with the third? and for that matter wouldnt u edo tensei about 500 people? lets say 500 isnt a possibilty because it requires too much chakra, (not that we know how much chakra it requires, also if they really do come back to life, shouldnt oro be able to have like 10 people aorund him at all times???) surely if he could make the former hokages come back to life before the fight, oro would have crushed the leaf into the ground like he wanted.

now i know people are gonna point out that such methods would finish the story right away, kishi has a lot to be accountable for. When charatcers (of course they arent real so they dont have thoughts, but kishi gives them life essentially so i am holding him accountable) do things that are really stupid or contrary to what everyone else would or might do, surely that is something that is less tolerable than a "bending" of physical laws?

i have many instances that i could bring up, but i think that oro example is adequate enough. what do other people think? anyone else get hot under the collar when such obvious things should be done but they are not?
 
Back
Top Bottom