Naruto PA SM Naruto and Jiraiya vs healthy Itachi

WorldsStrongest

Man of Miracles
Itachi still likely wins tbh

Parity with early EMS Sasuke is hilariously beyond what either of these 2 goobers have going for them

If Jiraiya doesn’t start in SM then this is for sure an Itachi W

The only people who are gonna think otherwise are deluded enough to think Jiraiya is on Itachis level at all in the first place

In reality

EMS Sasuke >=Itachi > MS Sasuke >= SM Naruto > 5 Paths > 3 Paths > SM Jiraiya

Naruto needs to hard carry here and its hella debatable he cant swing that

I can see arguments, but I also see em for Itachi
 
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Six Paths Scaling

𝕊𝕔𝕒𝕝𝕖 ℕ𝕒𝕣𝕦𝕥𝕠 𝕥𝕙𝕖 𝕣𝕚𝕘𝕙𝕥 𝕨𝕒𝕪, 𝕥𝕙𝕖 𝕊𝕚𝕩 ℙ𝕒𝕥𝕙𝕤 𝕊𝕔𝕒𝕝𝕚𝕟𝕘 𝕨𝕒𝕪
All Naruto & Jiraiya have to do realistically is just stall until frog song comes out. and from there its just pretty much over as Itachi has no knowledge on it whatsoever
 

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask

My left nut ain't hurting
If this is a hypothetically healthy Itachi, who should scale above his ET version at least in stats, and potency, then he takes the win.

We've seen that the gap in prowess between ET and alive versions, even for Kabuto's ET was large enough that Madara couldn't break out of Deity Gates while being an ET, but casually broke out by mere flexing once he was returned back to life.



And besides that, the eyes of ET zombies are fake, we know that because Madara's Rinnegan crumbles and Itachi's eyes were implanted in Sasuke by the time he was brought back as an Edo Zombie.


So the gap between a hypothetical Itachi who isn't crippled by illness and Edo Itachi should be decently big, considering the zombie version stats are at least affected to a moderate extent as seen by Madara's demonstration of strength once he was brought back to life, and the fact that his eyes are fake, so I'm more or less doubting that his MS tech is at 100% strength when he is operating as an Edo zombie.

This is important to keep in mind because Edo Itachi was portrayed as relative to EMS Sasuke during the Kabuto fight and even displayed a better performance during said fight. And EMS Sasuke is portrayed as KCM 1 Naruto's peer who is much stronger than PA SM Naruto at least, who in turn was stated to have surpassed Jiraiya and has the feats against Pain to back that statement up.


And hypothetical Healthy Itachi >> Edo Itachi, so I can definitely see him winning, especially when we also saw him dodging Bee's Samehada swing while facing KCM 1 Naruto in CQC simultaneously as an ET, and even if one wants to argue Bee wasn't at full power due to being in base and KCM 1 Naruto wasn't hurling FRSs at him, neither was Itachi, and we know that his V4 scales massively above his base.

Scaling wise: Hypothetical Healthy Itachi >> Edo Itachi >>> Sick Itachi >> exhausted and low on chakra Sick Itachi >> Hebi Sasuke and Hydra Orochimaru.


Even Sick Itachi can be stated to have ''defeated'' both Hebi Sasuke and Hydra Orochimaru considering he could have killed Hebi Sasuke whenever he wanted to as stated by Obito, and he blitz-one-shotted Orochimaru while low on chakra, barely standing on his feet, almost on the brink of death due to chakra exhaustion and terminal illness.


So at the very possibly worst when we go by portrayal, a sick, low-on-chakra Itachi, could have taken out both Hebi Sasuke and Hydra Orochimaru at the same time with his Susanoo. We know this as Oro himself doesn't disagree, while Sasuke was also low on chakra, and looked at his Susanoo in defeat, while exhausted.


So really, if a dead man walking Itachi demonstrates the power that can already take out a respectable Kage like Hebi Sasuke and Hydra Orochimaru who is Jiraiya's peer at least, then I really can't see why a full chakra healthy Itachi who isn't about to fucking die every second failing to put down these 2, especially when PA SM Naruto's portrayal is still below EMS Sasuke's whom Edo Itachi was relative to.

And I'm pretty sure that being at full chakra, without being terminally ill or nerfed by the Edo debuff more than makes up for the gap between Hebi Sasuke and PA SM Naruto.

Now I'll move on to how the fight would go.

I'll start with Jiraiya first, I really can't see him doing much in this scenario. He is outmatched in every possible fucking metric here. And it's likely that Itachi can dispatch him with a clone feint, if even the vastly superior, and Perfect Sage like Kabuto who's sensories are so good he can dodge Susanoo arrows ended up feinted by a crow clone, and Itachi could have aimed for his head or impaling him with Totsuka instead aiming at his horn provided he had killing intent.


If a significantly more powerful opponent, with again, much better sensory tech could have died immediately to that feint if Itachi would have gone for the kill, then it's more than likely Jiraiya would end up feinted and left open to a fatal blow. As his Sage Mode isn't perfect and at times failed to detect opponents behind his back.

If he doesn't start in Sage Mode, he is instantly vaporized. Frog Song takes far too long to prep and even with Naruto's help, he certainly isn't stalling Itachi when he considered retreating from 3 Paths of Pain that are nothing in comparison to the amount of pressure a V4, hell, even a V3 Susanoo can dish out.

He can't dodge Amaterasu, Yomi Numa gets burned by Amaterasu, much like his Toad Stomach, CORs are easily negged by Yata Mirror and approaching his Susanoo to deliver them means he gets impaled by Totsuka or dismembered.

Gamayu Endan, and perhaps every other offensive technique in his arsenal can't breach Susanoo's defense, especially higher stages. Summons, including Ma and Pa ( who are responsible for casting Frog Genjutsu ), are negged by 3T Genjutsu or Amaterasu, and it's not like Gamabunta has the strength to wrestle with hulking V4 capable of overpowering Hydra while Itachi was low on chakra and nearing his death.

It's even likely that Jiraiya would get shit-blitzed by a Susanoo slash, especially when we consider that Susanoo's speed scales above its user and 3T Itachi was already swapping hands with KCM 1 Naruto who's much faster than the Paths of Pain like the Human Path who caught SM Jiraiya's punch and Animal Path who landed black rod in Jiraiya's arm with its legs submerged in toad acid.

Finally, Yasaka Beads will take Jiraiya out if he attempts to keep his distance from Itachi, as their speed was matching the velocity of BM Bee's TBB, and an FRS propelled by KCM 1 Naruto:


Now I'll move on to Naruto, whose most powerful attack is FRS, which is more or less countered by Yata Mirror, and much like Jiraiya, he can't dodge Amaterasu, and can't deal with V4. Nor does he possess the speed to dodge Susanoo slashes aimed at him with KCM1 ++ striking speeds bare minimum. He is also vulnerable to clone feints and his clone spam is useless against some who even while sick doused almost the entirety of the Uchiha hideout in Amaterasu flames.

Summons can't help him either, and the portrayal gap still stands.

Finally, Genjutsu is still an option considering a superior perfect Sage like Kabuto with sensing so keen that makes him capable of dodging Susanoo arrows decided to fight with his eyes closed against Edo Itachi.

Itachi should win this high diff at worst.
 
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Capa13

Banned
If this is a hypothetically healthy Itachi, who should scale above his ET version at least in stats, and potency, then he takes the win.

We've seen that the gap in prowess between ET and alive versions, even for Kabuto's ET was large enough that Madara couldn't break out of Deity Gates while being an ET, but casually broke out by mere flexing once he was returned back to life.



And besides that, the eyes of ET zombies are fake, we know that because Madara's Rinnegan crumbles and Itachi's eyes were implanted in Sasuke by the time he was brought back as an Edo Zombie.


So the gap between a hypothetical Itachi who isn't crippled by illness and Edo Itachi should be decently big, considering the zombie version stats are at least affected to a moderate extent as seen by Madara's demonstration of strength once he was brought back to life, and the fact that his eyes are fake, so I'm more or less doubting that his MS tech is at 100% strength when he is operating as an Edo zombie.

This is important to keep in mind because Edo Itachi was portrayed as relative to EMS Sasuke during the Kabuto fight and even displayed a better performance during said fight. And EMS Sasuke is portrayed as KCM 1 Naruto's peer who is much stronger than PA SM Naruto at least, who in turn was stated to have surpassed Jiraiya and has the feats against Pain to back that statement up.


And hypothetical Healthy Itachi >> Edo Itachi, so I can definitely see him winning, especially when we also saw him dodging Bee's Samehada swing while facing KCM 1 Naruto in CQC simultaneously as an ET, and even if one wants to argue Bee wasn't at full power due to being in base and KCM 1 Naruto wasn't hurling FRSs at him, neither was Itachi, and we know that his V4 scales massively above his base.

Scaling wise: Hypothetical Healthy Itachi >> Edo Itachi >>> Sick Itachi >> Hebi Sasuke and Hydra Orochimaru.


Even Sick Itachi can be stated to have ''defeated'' both Hebi Sasuke and Hydra Orochimaru considering he could have killed Hebi Sasuke whenever he wanted to as stated by Obito, and he blitz-one-shotted Orochimaru while low on chakra, barely standing on his feet, almost on the brink of death due to chakra exhaustion and terminal illness.


So at the very possibly worst when we go by portrayal, a sick, low-on-chakra Itachi, could have taken out both Hebi Sasuke and Hydra Orochimaru at the same time with his Susanoo. We know this as Oro himself doesn't disagree, while Sasuke was also low on chakra, and looked at his Susanoo in defeat, while exhausted.


So really, if a dead man walking Itachi demonstrates the power that can already take out a respectable Kage like Hebi Sasuke and Hydra Orochimaru who is Jiraiya's peer at least, then I really can't see why a full chakra healthy Itachi who isn't about to fucking die every second failing to put down these 2, especially when PA SM Naruto's portrayal is still below EMS Sasuke's whom Edo Itachi was relative to.

Now I'll move on to how the fight would go.

I'll start with Jiraiya first, I really can't see him doing much in this scenario. He is outmatched in every possible fucking metric here. And it's likely that Itachi can dispatch him with a clone feint, if even the vastly superior, and Perfect Sage like Kabuto who's sensories are so good he can dodge Susanoo arrows ended up feinted by a crow clone, and Itachi could have aimed for his head or impaling him with Totsuka instead aiming at his horn provided he had killing intent.


If a significantly more powerful opponent, with again, much better sensory tech could have died immediately to that feint if Itachi would have gone for the kill, then it's more than likely Jiraiya would end up feinted and left open to a fatal blow. As his Sage Mode isn't perfect and at times failed to detect opponents behind his back.

If he doesn't start in Sage Mode, he is instantly vaporized. Frog Song takes far too long to prep and even with Naruto's help, he certainly isn't stalling Itachi when he considered retreating from 3 Paths of Pain that are nothing in comparison to the amount of pressure a V4, hell, even a V3 Susanoo can dish out.

He can't dodge Amaterasu, Yomi Numa gets burned by Amaterasu, much like his Toad Stomach, CORs are easily negged by Yata Mirror and approaching his Susanoo to deliver them means he gets impaled by Totsuka or dismembered.

Gamayu Endan, and perhaps every other offensive technique in his arsenal can't breach Susanoo's defense, especially higher stages. Summons, including Ma and Pa ( who are responsible for casting Frog Genjutsu ), are negged by 3T Genjutsu or Amaterasu, and it's not like Gamabunta has the strength to wrestle with hulking V4 capable of overpowering Hydra while Itachi was low on chakra and nearing his death.

It's even likely that Jiraiya would get shit-blitzed by a Susanoo slash, especially when we consider that Susanoo's speed scales above its user and 3T Itachi was already swapping hands with KCM 1 Naruto who's much faster than the Paths of Pain like the Human Path who caught SM Jiraiya's punch and Animal Path who landed black rod in Jiraiya's arm with its legs submerged in toad acid.

Finally, Yasaka Beads will take Jiraiya out if he attempts to keep his distance from Itachi, as their speed was matching the velocity of BM Bee's TBB, and an FRS propelled by KCM 1 Naruto:


Now I'll move on to Naruto, whose most powerful attack is FRS, which is more or less countered by Yata Mirror, and much like Jiraiya, he can't dodge Amaterasu, and can't deal with V4. Nor does he possess the speed to dodge Susanoo slashes aimed at him with KCM1 ++ striking speeds bare minimum. He is also vulnerable to clone feints and his clone spam is useless against some who even while sick doused almost the entirety of the Uchiha hideout in Amaterasu flames.

Summons can't help him either, and the portrayal gap still stands.

Itachi should win this high diff at worst.
Thank you now I don’t need to even make a post! You’re just doing gods work as always!
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
I would actually say the SM duo take it
Jiriaya going down will open up the opportunity for naruto to use guérilla tactics and FRS to his advantage
He only need force Itachi to keep using Susanoo
Then Itachi would kill himself
 

New Folder

Well-Known Member
Itachi loses mid diff
> "mid diff"

please :russ
either one alone would be mid diff, he is getting stomped against both at the same time...
Heck, you can argue it's a stomp 1 on 1 if you want to take their feats Vs Urashiki into consideration.

this fodder has no business standing here :haha
 

Azula

EMS Sasuke >=Itachi > MS Sasuke >= SM Naruto > 5 Paths > 3 Paths > SM Jiraiya

This scale is so wonky.

How come Jiraiya is below 3 paths when he killed all 3? :wut

How is Jiraiya below 5 paths when 6 paths couldn't catch an injured Jiraiya and Jiraiya actually captured one of the 6? :mjlol

How come MS Sasuke gets a free pass on defeating Pein when he was struggling with Danzo? :hestonpls

How about we avoid posting such wonky posts and actually answer the question. :ramsaythunk
 

New Folder

Well-Known Member
This scale is so wonky.

How come Jiraiya is below 3 paths when he killed all 3? :wut

How is Jiraiya below 5 paths when 6 paths couldn't catch an injured Jiraiya and Jiraiya actually captured one of the 6? :mjlol

How come MS Sasuke gets a free pass on defeating Pein when he was struggling with Danzo? :hestonpls

How about we avoid posting such wonky posts and actually answer the question. :ramsaythunk
WorldStrongest has a Jiraiya toy in his room. He stabs it every day after he wakes up, and before he sleeps.
no one should take his posts seriously... :haha
 

Turrin

玄武
If this is a hypothetically healthy Itachi, who should scale above his ET version at least in stats, and potency, then he takes the win.

We've seen that the gap in prowess between ET and alive versions, even for Kabuto's ET was large enough that Madara couldn't break out of Deity Gates while being an ET, but casually broke out by mere flexing once he was returned back to life.



And besides that, the eyes of ET zombies are fake, we know that because Madara's Rinnegan crumbles and Itachi's eyes were implanted in Sasuke by the time he was brought back as an Edo Zombie.


So the gap between a hypothetical Itachi who isn't crippled by illness and Edo Itachi should be decently big, considering the zombie version stats are at least affected to a moderate extent as seen by Madara's demonstration of strength once he was brought back to life, and the fact that his eyes are fake, so I'm more or less doubting that his MS tech is at 100% strength when he is operating as an Edo zombie.

This is important to keep in mind because Edo Itachi was portrayed as relative to EMS Sasuke during the Kabuto fight and even displayed a better performance during said fight. And EMS Sasuke is portrayed as KCM 1 Naruto's peer who is much stronger than PA SM Naruto at least, who in turn was stated to have surpassed Jiraiya and has the feats against Pain to back that statement up.


And hypothetical Healthy Itachi >> Edo Itachi, so I can definitely see him winning, especially when we also saw him dodging Bee's Samehada swing while facing KCM 1 Naruto in CQC simultaneously as an ET, and even if one wants to argue Bee wasn't at full power due to being in base and KCM 1 Naruto wasn't hurling FRSs at him, neither was Itachi, and we know that his V4 scales massively above his base.

Scaling wise: Hypothetical Healthy Itachi >> Edo Itachi >>> Sick Itachi >> Hebi Sasuke and Hydra Orochimaru.


Even Sick Itachi can be stated to have ''defeated'' both Hebi Sasuke and Hydra Orochimaru considering he could have killed Hebi Sasuke whenever he wanted to as stated by Obito, and he blitz-one-shotted Orochimaru while low on chakra, barely standing on his feet, almost on the brink of death due to chakra exhaustion and terminal illness.


So at the very possibly worst when we go by portrayal, a sick, low-on-chakra Itachi, could have taken out both Hebi Sasuke and Hydra Orochimaru at the same time with his Susanoo. We know this as Oro himself doesn't disagree, while Sasuke was also low on chakra, and looked at his Susanoo in defeat, while exhausted.


So really, if a dead man walking Itachi demonstrates the power that can already take out a respectable Kage like Hebi Sasuke and Hydra Orochimaru who is Jiraiya's peer at least, then I really can't see why a full chakra healthy Itachi who isn't about to fucking die every second failing to put down these 2, especially when PA SM Naruto's portrayal is still below EMS Sasuke's whom Edo Itachi was relative to.

Now I'll move on to how the fight would go.

I'll start with Jiraiya first, I really can't see him doing much in this scenario. He is outmatched in every possible fucking metric here. And it's likely that Itachi can dispatch him with a clone feint, if even the vastly superior, and Perfect Sage like Kabuto who's sensories are so good he can dodge Susanoo arrows ended up feinted by a crow clone, and Itachi could have aimed for his head or impaling him with Totsuka instead aiming at his horn provided he had killing intent.


If a significantly more powerful opponent, with again, much better sensory tech could have died immediately to that feint if Itachi would have gone for the kill, then it's more than likely Jiraiya would end up feinted and left open to a fatal blow. As his Sage Mode isn't perfect and at times failed to detect opponents behind his back.

If he doesn't start in Sage Mode, he is instantly vaporized. Frog Song takes far too long to prep and even with Naruto's help, he certainly isn't stalling Itachi when he considered retreating from 3 Paths of Pain that are nothing in comparison to the amount of pressure a V4, hell, even a V3 Susanoo can dish out.

He can't dodge Amaterasu, Yomi Numa gets burned by Amaterasu, much like his Toad Stomach, CORs are easily negged by Yata Mirror and approaching his Susanoo to deliver them means he gets impaled by Totsuka or dismembered.

Gamayu Endan, and perhaps every other offensive technique in his arsenal can't breach Susanoo's defense, especially higher stages. Summons, including Ma and Pa ( who are responsible for casting Frog Genjutsu ), are negged by 3T Genjutsu or Amaterasu, and it's not like Gamabunta has the strength to wrestle with hulking V4 capable of overpowering Hydra while Itachi was low on chakra and nearing his death.

It's even likely that Jiraiya would get shit-blitzed by a Susanoo slash, especially when we consider that Susanoo's speed scales above its user and 3T Itachi was already swapping hands with KCM 1 Naruto who's much faster than the Paths of Pain like the Human Path who caught SM Jiraiya's punch and Animal Path who landed black rod in Jiraiya's arm with its legs submerged in toad acid.

Finally, Yasaka Beads will take Jiraiya out if he attempts to keep his distance from Itachi, as their speed was matching the velocity of BM Bee's TBB, and an FRS propelled by KCM 1 Naruto:


Now I'll move on to Naruto, whose most powerful attack is FRS, which is more or less countered by Yata Mirror, and much like Jiraiya, he can't dodge Amaterasu, and can't deal with V4. Nor does he possess the speed to dodge Susanoo slashes aimed at him with KCM1 ++ striking speeds bare minimum. He is also vulnerable to clone feints and his clone spam is useless against some who even while sick doused almost the entirety of the Uchiha hideout in Amaterasu flames.

Summons can't help him either, and the portrayal gap still stands.

Itachi should win this high diff at worst.
You got to learn about the important of teleportation jutsu and speed scaling man. It makes all of this really wrong

Itachi only kept up with KCM1 Physical combat speed which was explicitly stated to be inferior to Sages due to Sage Mode Sensing, so Itachi’s better Feat is actually keeping up with SM Kabuto, but that at best scales him to Sages Physical Combat speed not above (assuming Kabuto is equal in physical speed to Naruto and Jiriaya which is kind of unlikely even granting him Orochimaru Base Speed due to the chakra difference but whatever). And then Itachi of course gets vastly outclassed in Body Flicker by all of these individuals since his chakra supply is dwarfed by theirs. So overall Itachi is at best relative to them in Taijutsu, but inferior in Strength and Body Flicker by a large margin, so he would loose out greatly in CQC to SM Naruto or SM Jiriaya (without even getting into Frog Fu).

Susanoo can be faster then Itachi too, and this still wouldn’t matter that much as Susanoo has not been shown to be the extreme speed amp that Teleportation Jutsu is, as Naruto is still faster with Teleportation Jutsu then his Chakra Constructs are which kept up with Susanoo (actually a more advanced Susanoo then Itachi’s). So if Body Flicker is a bigger amp then Susanoo over Base Physical speed; and Itachi / Sages are equal, they can just use Body Flicker to dodge Susanoo attacks, if they can just sense and react (considering SM sensing allowed Naruto to react to enemies far faster then him anyway).
 
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Turrin

玄武
Ether Jiriaya or Naruto can win this solo. The combination of the two is way too much here.

SM Kabuto with a weaker Sound Jutsu beat Edo Itachi so the idea that SM Jiriaya doesn’t have a chance to do so with a stronger Sound Jutsu Will always be flawed.

Like wise SM Naruto Chou FRS should scale well above Danzo’s Futton and as such have good odds of blowing up V4 Susanoo; even if Naruto first needed to hit Susanoo from behind while avoiding the shield like Danzo did, which he can do with clone distractions.
 
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Bonly

The White Wolf
The duo's main chance of winning was by outlasting Itachi but with Itachi being healthy the duo's chances are mostly gone. Genjutsu still walls Naruto at this point, Ama counters FRS which is his best jutsu and he only has 5 minutes or 2 FRS before he goes back into Base. So even though Naruto is stronger then Jiraiya, Jiraiya would have to cover for Naruto after a few minutes of fighting or he'd have to stop what he's doing in order to break out Naruto of a Genjutsu which creates an opening on Jiraiya. Problem for Jiraiya is that he can't handle the MS jutsu well and would be put on the defensive and he can't get past Susanoo on his own and needs Naruto's FRS but that can be countered. So it's just a matter of time before the duo gets overwhelmed and finished off as their fighting a losing battle. Their only chance to win is if Jiraiya runs away as soon as the fight starts and goes for Frog Song
 

Danisor

Well-Known Member
I would lean towards Itachi.

He was fighting guys like KCM Naruto and SM Kabuto in his Edo state.

J-Man's shit sensory skills will get him killed, he got blitzed by Shurado.

Naruto has to worry about his sensei here, while fighting Itachi at the same time.

Itachi’s Susano'o can tank everything in J-Man's arsenal. Ma and Pa are either put under genjutsu, or one shotted by either Amaterasu or Totsuka Blade.

J-Man's frog song is not instant, and it's not like Itachi is gonna stand there and watch.

Naruto hasn’t shown the discipline to avoid eye contact, so it's likely for him to get taken out by something like Tsukuyomi.
 

Skywalker

Chosen One
The pair absolutely have a chance at winning, they both have more chakra and stamina then Itachi, if they play their cards right they can outlast him or outright defeat him. They have the tools for it. If Itachi manages to land genjutsu or Amaterasu on either they're done, but he's gonna have a hard time pulling that off with how tricky they are. Meanwhile a clean hit from either of them is going to drop him too.
Ghost punches are going to ruin his day if he enters CQC.
 

MaruUchiha

The Fourth Six Paths
Pain Sage Mode Naruto solos
Itachi still likely wins tbh

Parity with early EMS Sasuke is hilariously beyond what either of these 2 goobers have going for them

If Jiraiya doesn’t start in SM then this is for sure an Itachi W

The only people who are gonna think otherwise are deluded enough to think Jiraiya is on Itachis level at all in the first place

In reality

EMS Sasuke >=Itachi > MS Sasuke >= SM Naruto > 5 Paths > 3 Paths > SM Jiraiya

Naruto needs to hard carry here and its hella debatable he cant swing that

I can see arguments, but I also see em for Itachi
The world's wrongest man staying consistent as ever
 

Capa13

Banned
Ether Jiriaya or Naruto can win this solo. The combination of the two is way too much here.

SM Kabuto with a weaker Sound Jutsu beat Edo Itachi so the idea that SM Jiriaya doesn’t have a chance to do so with a stronger Sound Jutsu Will always be flawed.

Like wise SM Naruto Chou FRS should scale well above Danzo’s Futton and as such have good odds of blowing up V4 Susanoo; even if Naruto first needed to hit Susanoo from behind while avoiding the shield like Danzo did, which he can do with clone distractions.
This man just tried to claim SM Kabuto is somehow in the same league as SM Jiraiya/SM Naruto LOOOOOL. He also thinks that SM sensing is superior to KCM1 speed all while SM Jiraiya was getting shit blitzed by an average path of pain. I’m literally in tears man!



@ObitoOfTheOrangeMask @WorldsStrongest @Sufex @Aegon Targaryen @Code @Quipchaque
 

Sufex

The Ghost
Sooner or later nardo eats a tyskinomi and jman has nothing to threaten v4. Itachi wont let the frogs stall for frog song. They get genjutsued and crack jmans neck mind controlled or get set alight with amaterasu. High/extreme diff tho.
 
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Charmed

Forever Charmed
The Sages would win imo. They can easily overwhelm Itachi with summons and bunshins.
SM Jman vs Itachi is a balanced fight.
SM Nardo vs Itachi is a fair fight, but 2 Sages vs Itachi it's just too much.
 

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask

My left nut ain't hurting
You got to learn about the important of teleportation jutsu and speed scaling man. It makes all of this really wrong

Itachi only kept up with KCM1 Physical combat speed which was explicitly stated to be inferior to Sages due to Sage Mode Sensing, so Itachi’s better Feat is actually keeping up with SM Kabuto, but that at best scales him to Sages Physical Combat speed not above (assuming Kabuto is equal in physical speed to Naruto and Jiriaya which is kind of unlikely even granting him Orochimaru Base Speed due to the chakra difference but whatever). And then Itachi of course gets vastly outclassed in Body Flicker by all of these individuals since his chakra supply is dwarfed by theirs. So overall Itachi is at best relative to them in Taijutsu, but inferior in Strength and Body Flicker by a large margin, so he would loose out greatly in CQC to SM Naruto or SM Jiriaya (without even getting into Frog Fu).

Susanoo can be faster then Itachi too, and this still wouldn’t matter that much as Susanoo has not been shown to be the extreme speed amp that Teleportation Jutsu is, as Naruto is still faster with Teleportation Jutsu then his Chakra Constructs are which kept up with Susanoo (actually a more advanced Susanoo then Itachi’s). So if Body Flicker is a bigger amp then Susanoo over Base Physical speed; and Itachi / Sages are equal, they can just use Body Flicker to dodge Susanoo attacks, if they can just sense and react (considering SM sensing allowed Naruto to react to enemies far faster then him anyway).

1. I never claimed Itachi is as fast as KCM 1 Naruto in flicker speeds if this is one of your contentions.

2. KCM 1 was never stated to be inferior in physical speed compared to SM, only in the range and speed of sensing. So that may possibly translate to better taijutsu over KCM 1 due to the precog and danger sense, but has nothing to do with physical speed.


3. Why would SM Kabuto not be vastly superior to Jiraiya when he has better CQC feats like stalemating Edo Itachi in CQC who was relative to EMS Sasuke who is way faster than the Human Path that blocked Jiraiya's punch and the Animal Path that tagged him?

The difference should be remarkable if even the physically inferior PA SM Naruto compared to WA SM Naruto and KCM 1 Naruto blitzed a full-speed rocket boot propelled Asura Path.

And what do you mean by chakra difference? Are you saying Jiraiya has more chakra than Kabuto?

4. MS users get Sage Tier stats from MS development, and stats can also refer to speed. They don't need massive chakra reserves when the potency of their chakra is massively increased by the usage of their Sharingan, like when Karin noted that a V3 wielding MS Sasuke's chakra potency surpassed that of Curse Mark, which is a 10x amp as stated by Jirobo. So even if you argue that Jiraiya and SM Naruto can pour more chakra into their flicker due to larger reserves, MS users have a more potent chakra that can be molded for their flickers, making up for the difference in quantity. But by virtue of having Sage Tier stats, his strength is also Sage Tier, considering SM Kabuto couldn't physically overpower him.



5. What feats does Jiraiya's or PA SM Naruto's flicker have that would make them capable of dodging Susanoo slashes? The speed gap between its user and Susanoo is significant, to the point where MS Sasuke who was relative to Danzo in CQC outside of Susanoo was blitzing him with just V2 Susanoo, and V4 is 2 stages above that.



If Sasuke's V2 Susanoo was at least physically blitzing Danzo who is a Sharingan user that should also be capable of physically reacting to V1 A4 by virtue of being relative to MS Sasuke who easily dodged A4's elbow and landed a Chidori on him and potentially has Sage Tier stats since Danzo is also an MS user and was relative in CQC to a post-V3 Sasuke that surpassed his CSM 2 version in chakra potency, then I don't see how Jiraiya or SM Naruto are flickering out of V4's attacks that are 2 stages of Susanoo speed above a V2 that again, blitzed Danzo who would easily physically react to V1 A4, has 3T, and Sage Tier stats that also transfer to flicker but that is irrelevant because he got blitzed either way.




If SM Naruto and SM Jiraiya were as fast as to dodge V4 levels of speed with their flickers, then they would have easily blitzed all Paths with their flickers neg-diff because in no world are those Paths more reactive than an MS user like Danzo who scales to post-V3 MS Sasuke.

In fact, SM Naruto and SM Jiraiya would even physically blitz Itachi and MS Sasuke outside of their Susanoos with their flickers if we got by the logic that their flickers can outspeed V4 Susanoo levels of striking speed, which is an insane stretch to me when you consider that not even V1 A4 could physically blitz pre-Danzo fight Sasuke, much less characters that are portrayed on an inferior pedestal of flicker speeds and had issues dodging characters like Animal Path's rod. And the idea gets shut down when not even SM Kabuto could physically blitz Itachi with his flicker.

6. I don't see why Itachi would go CQC to make himself vulnerable to ghost punches when he has Susanoo to crush them like Danzo who got splattered by it.
 
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Charmed

Forever Charmed
How are their summons overwhelming him when he can put them in 3T Genjutsu or light them with Amaterasu that legit left nothing out of Cerberus?
He cant Genjutsu all frogs at once, nor he can cast amaetrasu on all toads at the same time.
If the toads get caught under genjutsu, partner method should release them, there're a lot of toads.
If say, the toads get hit by Amaterasu then Jiraiya can seal it with his scroll.

It's Itachi the one who's outnumbered here, youre acting like his opponents are just gonna stand there and wait their turn to get negdiffed.

The way I see it, while Itachi tries to take down one of those toads, 4 more toads will flank him, aided by Naruto and Jiraiya.
 

sabre320

Well-Known Member
Smoke screen, frog call that bypasses sussano and frs all that's needed to win add in bunshins and sm yomi numa and its a sweep.
To think itachi can win against these two is wank plain and simple.
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
He cant Genjutsu all frogs at once, nor he can cast amaetrasu on all toads at the same time.
This is head canon never has it been stated or implied sharingan genjutsu can’t be used on more than one person
Even fodders can cast genjutsu on multiple targets
If the toads get caught under genjutsu, partner method should release them, there're a lot of toads.
If say, the toads get hit by Amaterasu then Jiraiya can seal it with his scroll.

It's Itachi the one who's outnumbered here, youre acting like his opponents are just gonna stand there and wait their turn to get negdiffed.

The way I see it, while Itachi tries to take down one of those toads, 4 more toads will flank him, aided by Naruto and Jiraiya.
See above
 
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