Naruto Plothole (I've read all the manga)

[Epsonica]

Ok, i'm seriously upset at Masashi - how he dealt with Orochimaru in Part 2, he was made to be a complete powerhouse of a villian in part 1. I'm not arguing about what happened (unless you want to) , I'm wondering why Masashi did this.

In part 2 They made pretty much all of Orochimaru's performances Sub par, Kakashi's performances were the opposite. Alright this is what i don't understand back in Part 1 Kakashi vs Orochimaru - Kakashi did not even stand a chance of winning. Keep this in mind.

Alright, So now Orochimaru is training Sasuke in CS2, Now i'll tell you something about training why would you train someone who is more powerful than you? That makes no Sense you have to be trained by someone greater in this case Oro is greater, Oro has more power.

Keeping on track now - Sasuke CS2 is more powerful than Naruto,
Year after year this won't change. Orochimaru is seen still training Sasuke After he fights with Naruto in Four tails , So Oro is still teaching him, So he is still Greater than Sasuke.

Alright, About the Kyuubi fight, i'm skipping that one that's not a proper fight and i don't care what anyone says no way could Naruto with even 4 tails kill Orochimaru. By the way if you want to argue about this just tell me. But hey let's talk about Sasuke

How in hell did Orochimaru lose so easily against him? Their differences in power was so great in Part 1. How would 3 years make such a difference? Especially when Orochimaru is the one training Sasuke. Remember what i said about Training.

That's all - looks like a big mess to me, To me it looks like Oro is gone forever without any big fight or explanation or nothing that's not the way for a ninja with his kind of power to die? Seriously he better come back as just one "Orochimaru" , did Masashi just make the most popular story he could by making the more popular characters stronger because that would equal more viewers which equals more money.
It just don't seem realistic by any stretch of my imagination.
Very open to discussion

P.S (I only just thought about this whole thing properly the other day which is why i didn't post this sooner also i'm pretty new here)

 

[Sagara]

Bold thread , at least you spell alright.

Though such points have been stated on numerous occasions.

At least you didn't pull a disastrous first thread like I did

 

[Epsonica]

=]

Numerous Occasions, No I searched already nothing has been said just as i said it up there so read it again and actually reply something worthwile instead of my spelling or your previous threads - instead of just adding to your post count , Thanks.

 

[Sagara]

And........................................

........................................
........................................
..........................................



It happened .

So much for searching eh?

The least you could do for an already high stressed point is put some worthwhile analysis into it.

Instead of driving in the Oro fan-boy direction.

Hey , don't say I didn't try being decent.

P-H-A-I-L

 

[XEro SenninX]

It wasn't a normal battle. Orochimaru used something similar to genjutsu & Sasuke reversed it with sharingan.

In a normal fight Orochi would have solo'd.
; x

 

[Epsonica]

At Naruto (original name there) I did not register to complain about his storywriting.
I made posts before i made this one. I'm just simply voicing my opinion about this matter.

At Sagara , I did put worthwhile Analysis into it if you did read it properly, I understand why he would write about everything else the way he did except what he did with Orochimaru which is why i'm only talking about Orochimaru, How else can i put it.

You don't understand the point i'm trying to make.
Lol. P H A I L is your Sig and Avatar i would rather have nothing.

And i really did try to search for a post like the one i did.
You guys think if i didn't like his storywriting i would read the complete manga No? , i'm just wondering why he did it this way which i've said already in my first post.

 

[Naruto]

At Naruto (original name there)

Proud to wear it.

 

[Sagara]

The fact that you have to state you've read the manga up to the latest chapter is already a tell-tale sign that you are not confident in your thread.

If you search , try several key words , not "Kishi is suxxors and I liek should write it "

Such a derogatory statement regarding my sig can only come from someone with the cerebral capabilities of a six year old , how juvenile.

I shan't waste any more time posting in your already reeking thread.

So learn to search , or GTFO noob

 

[Immortal_Gunn]

Ok, i'm seriously upset at Masashi - how he dealt with Orochimaru in Part 2, he was made to be a complete powerhouse of a villian in part 1. I'm not arguing about what happened (unless you want to) , I'm wondering why Masashi did this.

In part 2 They made pretty much all of Orochimaru's performances Sub par, Kakashi's performances were the opposite. Alright this is what i don't understand back in Part 1 Kakashi vs Orochimaru - Kakashi did not even stand a chance of winning. Keep this in mind.

Because there was a 2 and a half year gap between part 1 and 2, Oro is simply starting to be surpassed, he has served his purpose.
Yes Kakashi couldn't have taken Oro in part 1, but things have changed.

I'm not saying it was written very well, but thems the facts.

Alright, So now Orochimaru is training Sasuke in CS2, Now i'll tell you something about training why would you train someone who is more powerful than you? That makes no Sense you have to be trained by someone greater in this case Oro is greater, Oro has more power.

You do not have to be stronger then someone to train them, there a so many characters in popular culture where the pupil is just as physically capable, but lacks the knowledge and experiance their master does. Oro could have and did impart knowledge, he helped Sasuke hone his body and mind through physical activities, as we saw when he provided Sasuke with X amount of shinobi for him to "spar" with.

Keeping on track now - Sasuke CS2 is more powerful than Naruto,
Year after year this won't change. Orochimaru is seen still training Sasuke After he fights with Naruto in Four tails , So Oro is still teaching him, So he is still Greater than Sasuke.

How in hell did Orochimaru lose so easily against him? Their differences in power was so great in Part 1. How would 3 years make such a difference? Especially when Orochimaru is the one training Sasuke. Remember what i said about Training.

You keep assuming the master is always physically stronger then the pupil - Sasuke also trained without Oro, as evident by the fact Sasuke was using a chakra type Oro hadn't seen before.

In my opinion this is a recycled thread that is lacking any logical approach.

 

[forkandspoon]

Its called fan service and it ruins most manga

 

[Epsonica]

The fact that you have to state you've read the manga up to the latest chapter is already a tell-tale sign that you are not confident in your thread.

If you search , try several key words , not "Kishi is suxxors and I liek should write it "

Such a derogatory statement regarding my sig can only come from someone with the cerebral capabilities of a six year old , how juvenile.

I shan't waste any more time posting in your already reeking thread.

So learn to search , or GTFO noob

LOL at Tell-tale Sign, I just wrote that up there so people knew how much i've read of the manga, what has that got to do with being confident in my thread, If i said what i did without reading the complete Manga how would it be fair for me to say such things? You take me for a fool.

Oh, how Derogatory was P H A I L, that's not even a word that's just letters. You can do that below Six using the Alphabet. Also With Sigs and Avatars like that, you look like more the typical juvenile than me, i don't need to express anything unlike yourself.

I already Searched for a thread just like mine, like i said before and guess what? I found nothing like i already told you before, Seems like you have problems understanding uncomplicated statements.

GTFO? , this is my thread jackass. You GTFO.
Take a good look at your own actions before you call me a noob.

 

[Shodai]

Did someone say plotholes in MY Naruto?

s for plotholes, as defined by canon, there's the 1 Month Miracle, AKA Sasuke's training period. Granted it wasn't nearly that bad when it was first introduced, but upon the revamping of the Element system it became total BS. And on that note the Element System, which contradicts at least two scenes before hand in regards to the actual usage of element techniques. Then there's the Kage Bunshin training method, which should seriously have been noticed beforehand. The Sharingan is also an issue, because honestly it has been getting massive amounts of powerups lately. At first it was convient but not so overpowered, but not it's getting really ridiculous. There might be more, but these are likely the biggest issues.

Edit: Wait, I forgot the most annoying one of all. Naruto Failing 3 times. No matter what logic you come up with, Naruto would have had to have been in a different class than Sasuke. And if Naruto was allowed to take the test early, Sasuke would have too, and would have passed beforehand, because it's in his character to want to get stronger faster in order to catch up to Itachi. I've yet to come up with a logical way around this. MINUTES of sleep Lost trying to figure this out... honestly...

Naruto fails the Academy Exam three times, yet he is the youngest person in his Team.

Sasuke never asks Kakashi about his Sharingan.

Sarutobi calls Naruto the Kyuubi's human form.

Chidori went from tons of chakra in a fist to a lightning based attack. Same with Raikiri.

Sasuke versus Deidara. The entire damned thing, not just the lolwtfMANDA!

Tsunade's punches did jack shit to Orochimaru. Contrary to popular belief, his head is not made of bricks, and should be less durable.

The Academy in general doesn't do much of anything. I've got several pages of rants I can link you to, if you want...it's a pet peeve/hobby of mine.

At the end of Part One, Naruto is on equal ground with Sasuke. Sakura is far, far behind. At the beginning of Part Two, Naruto and Sakura swap places in this alignment of power. All trained under Sannin, and Jiraiya and Orochimaru were supposedly equals in their prime. It gets even worse when you consider the fact that Tsunade is a Kage, and therefore can only train her as a sideproject at best, while Jiraiya was basicly on a full time training trip with Naruto.

Sarutobi should have killed Orochimaru. If the amount of chakra is directly related to the amount of soul one can pull out, and the soul appears to be related to physical body size, there is no way the Yondaime should have been able to seal the Kyuubi. Even if he only sealed its "yang" chakra.

The Sharingan, in its initial introduction, as said by Uchiha Sasuke, is able to, "enable them to penetrate and see the reality behind any illusion or spell...and to reflect the power of the magics they penetrate back on those who cast them! ...and there's more." Then Zabuza continues, "Most formidable of all is the acuity with which the Sharingan can discern and then duplicate its opponent's greatest skill." First off, I would like to congratulate the manga on clearly stating that it is the -Sharingan- that can duplicate an opponent's greatest skill, because it is indeed an onboard computer requiring no training to fully utilize beyond gaining more tomoe. Second off, there is nothing in there about seeing chakra, increasing reaction speed, increasing speed, increasing thought speed, etc. Kishimoto can cop out under the "and there's more" line from Sasuke, but it's blatantly bullshit.

Naruto never uses the Sexy Jutsu in combat. I'm aware it's a comedic device. It also took out a fucking Kage, in canon no less. He also never uses the godmode!henge outside of the Zabuza trick. Combined with hundreds of clones, that henge should make him something to be feared, at the least.

The Shadow Clone memory trick. There was no evidence of it. There is no way anyone could possibly be so stupid, especially if they brag a lot, as Naruto does, as to not notice the fact that they remember a fight from one thousand different viewpoints.

Tsunade trains Sakura. This in and of itself is a plot hole. Sakura is smart and has good chakra control. That doesn't mean the leader of the village has time to help her train for the specific purpose of continuing her unprofessional fangirl urges.

More Holes:

Naruto's original perfected Rasengan, as used against Kabuto, was very similar to a Kamehameha in effect, as it launched him many feet in a huge ball of energy. This effect is never repeated.

People think Naruto could make Hokage. I'm with Genocide Heart on this one: no fucking way. BTS he had a good shot at growing into it. Now, he has a better chance of growing into a marmoset and inventing spaceships.

The entire fight with the Sound Four and Sasuke was in the middle of a ninja village that was on high alert. Many crashing noises and yells were made. Nobody investigated.

In a Sasuke flashback, Itachi says that the Uchiha only founded the Ninja Police, which is why the Uchiha fan is the NP logo. Later, Itachi claims that Madara helped him slaughter the police force. Uchiha /=/ Police.

Amaterasu. Just...what the fuck. I can see some of the other ridiculous abilities, but Amaterasu and Kakashi's spatial warp are beyond the realm of believability.

Jiraiya weakened the seal by using the seal frog. He saw how fucked up it made things. Then he didn't seal it back up like a smart sannin.

Sasuke's chakra is more sinister than Kyuubi's, despite the fact that he has never killed anyone.

Speaking of killing people, there is -no- reaction to first kills in the ninja world. After reading Tempered in Water, this is intolerable.

Orochimaru, a traitor to his village, was trusted by a military leader. No.

Tsunade was not ranked as a missing nin, despite abandoning her village. She too was a traitor, and they made her Hokage, despite the fact that she's a lazy gambling drunkard.

Iruka is the first person to acknowledge Naruto's existence. He does so in Chapter One and forever secures Naruto's eternal warm feelings as a big brother/father figure. Later, he makes a grand total of four appearances, only two of which were with Naruto.

Also another plot hole which I am hesitant to bring up. When Naruto goes Kyuubi after Deidara pisses him off, all his clones start burning up when the tails start forming. However during the Rasengan training a clone actually goes all the way to three tail, and then is promptly WTFPWNED!!! by Yamato's wood seal thingy. Yet none of the clones are affected.

An interesting thing of note there though is that a clone hit by an attack while in a tailed form doesn't disappate. It was only when the tailed form receeded thanks to the wood seal that it vanished. Not a plot hole, but at the very least it's an interesting tidbit.

Internets just reminded me Anbu-elite or cannon fodder? We are repeatedly told that ANBU are supposed to be the elite but they die like cannon fodder.

Hmm does naruto not like the toads or something? Summons are damn useful, he should make more use of them! Kakashi pulls out the dogs AMAP! Can naruto actually summon the medium toads(like the one that jiraiya summoned!)

Jiraiya teaching Naruto to harness Kyuubi chakara, cus we need to give the fox MORE access to naruto's body!

where the hell are the minor demons! How can kyuubi be a demon LORD if he has no minions!

How in the world do they have tv and radio but gunpowder is literally unheard of?

Does naruto actually like sasuke? We are never really clear on that IMO.

Lets take a look at the first episode/chapter. 2 things tick me off in that chapter:

1) How the bloody hell does a ACADEMY STUDENT wearing neon orange manage to actually get to the scroll before being found by anyone. Granted his stealth skills could be good but to do that, give me break

2) If my birthday was the day of a great disaster and the entire village dislikes me, not to mention that Naruto had 6 WHISKERS on his face, I would have at least figured out that they hate me because I have SOMETHING to do with a giant fox who, coincidentally, most likely has whiskers as well.

One more thing that pisses me off that really isn't a plot hole is Haku, Anko, and Yugito .

Haku:

1) HOW THE BLOODY HELL CAN BAKAMOTO DRAW A TRAP THAT LOOKS BETTER THAN 90% OF THE ACTUAL GIRLS!!!!!!!!!

2) why did she/he have to die? Wouldn't it make more sense to keep he/she alive to HELP Naruto come of age in the ninja world

Anko:

1) we saw her for maybe 10-20 panels at the most and she was Orochimaru's APPRENTICE.

2) Where is she? During the current arc they could use her knowledge of what someone trained by Orochimaru would when in sasuke's current situation

Yugito:

1) If you give the character a name that usually means they are going to be around for a while yet she only had 10 panels tops of actually seeing her.

2) another case of why did she die. She is a Jinchuriki she could have helped Naruo in controlling Kyuubi's power and with akatsuki around you think she would have been a more important character.

 

[thethingexe]

why don't we make this clear...

shounens = good guys > bad guys

that is why goku beats freeza, cell, buu, etc.

and in the case of naruto, sasuke can beat orochimaru, because sasuke is good, orochimaru is bad. it doesn't matter if orochimaru had every hax in the narutoverse, he will be beaten by a good guy.

shounens writers don't have to care what plots they pull out of their asses, because a shounen's intended age group and "buying" (that's right the ones who actually buy weekly shounen jump) group don't care about plots.

 

[Epsonica]

Bah

For you Gunn.

Sasuke does not simply surpass Orochimaru in just that time alone.

If characters developed that quickly Orochimaru would surely be much stronger than Sasuke?

How can Sasuke get so strong, in two and a half years. I'm pitting him against Orochimaru who could of easily killed sasuke two years back.

So you're pretty much telling me that it only takes two and a half years to surpass Orochimaru who has been alive for around thirty five years longer than Sasuke? how do you figure that? How many more Ninja do you think Orochimaru has killed than Sasuke, How many more times do you think Orochimaru has trained than Sasuke. How many more techniques would Orochimaru have learned in that time?

I actually do now beleive it's fan service for the kiddies, and it does suck.
Oh well. I'm dissapointed i was following it as a plot style.

Ohwell that is just sad whatever =[

 

[Epsonica]

Bah

Zabuza, i've read all the Manga of it like i said in the subject of the thread.
I can't tolerate it, 32 months, don't make up for 40+ years that Orochi had.
Sorry, you can only push the genius "bloodline" thing so far. Hard work over 40 years with Orochi would surely be more than 2.5 years of Sasuke.. Come on. If Sasuke beat Orochi in Part one in would of been easier to beleive like Itachi did, But because Orochi absolutely destroyed Sasuke, how can you rapidly gain that much power?

 

[Epsonica]

Bah

How derogatory = Phail?

You're making even less sense boy. Perhaps use a dictionary , derogatory = showing critical attitude towards something. It isn't a continent or something.

It's not that I have trouble understanding the easiest of sentences , perhaps learn something called apercu , you prick

So I changed my mind , shoot me.

You would rather having nothing? Ever heard of a little word called perogative? Lol , an iq test never hurt anyone. It's my goddamn problem if I wanna have a sig , at least it's tasteful.

Perhaps because you're as artistically inclined an intoxicated grandpa and having no sense of aesthetics as well , you try in a not so valiant attempt to condemn everyone with sigs , hoping you'd sound intellectual? Lawl.

How are we measuring who pawns who in text again? I'm beyond confident that I can articulate milestones better than you.

I take too long to reply? Perhaps because I was too busy doing other things , my life isn't warped around a screen you know?

And I'd rather take my time articulating a post with quality , not some jargon I pulled out of my mom's ass ala-you.

Now then , back to the manga.

So Kakashi learned the MS?

That pales in comparison to what Sasuke achieved(Lol , I'm definitely no Sasuke fan , but a point is a point)

When he uses it , it drains tremendous chakra . Also , he is far from mastering the technique.

And tell me , did Kakashi have ANY clear cut wins at all?

Answer = No.

Simple as that.

And typing in caps is gay?

Heard of sarcasm
Wow , your usage of the word gay is intriguing beyond my imagination

You bore me bitch.

Take your time doing another TLDR .

I shouldn't waste any more of my life trying to communicate with a caveman .

No, because you said How Derogatory that is P H A I L, who says that?

Lol, how the hell could you think i ment something else.. i'm not that complex.

Tasteful in your eyes, for me it isn't.

I don't need signatures and avatars to post on a forum, I'm only condemning you and i don't hope to sound intellectual unlike yourself by the looks of things after all, i'm posting on a cartoon forum here.

Who's life is warped around a screen? , I'm doing things also you just think your shit out and still get it wrong, Lol n00b i take half the time.

It don't matter Kakashi Progessed, which is more than Orochimaru did?

Lol, you obviously read all of my posts, because you reply to everything, jackass. Btw, you want to take this out of this forum? Have any instant messaging programs , pm your screen name we'll see who is the n00b? Or you not up for it. I don't want to cloud this thread arguing with some guy. I didn't make this thread for that.

 

[Frostman]

I guess you missed the chapter where Oro was spitting up blood and when Kabuto said that Oro was at his limits. Orochimaru was stronger then Sasuke, Saskuke admitted that. Sasuke just had various advantages that led him to victory.

And Orochimaru was the villain in Part 1. Madara and Pein are the villains in part 2. Sorry to say, Orochimaru isn't that important anymore.

 

[Epsonica]

This is stupid, posts are muddled -.-

 

[Epsonica]

Stupid threads

How derogatory = Phail?

You're making even less sense boy. Perhaps use a dictionary , derogatory = showing critical attitude towards something. It isn't a continent or something.

It's not that I have trouble understanding the easiest of sentences , perhaps learn something called apercu , you prick

So I changed my mind , shoot me.

You would rather having nothing? Ever heard of a little word called perogative? Lol , an iq test never hurt anyone. It's my goddamn problem if I wanna have a sig , at least it's tasteful.

Perhaps because you're as artistically inclined an intoxicated grandpa and having no sense of aesthetics as well , you try in a not so valiant attempt to condemn everyone with sigs , hoping you'd sound intellectual? Lawl.

How are we measuring who pawns who in text again? I'm beyond confident that I can articulate milestones better than you.

I take too long to reply? Perhaps because I was too busy doing other things , my life isn't warped around a screen you know?

And I'd rather take my time articulating a post with quality , not some jargon I pulled out of my mom's ass ala-you.

Now then , back to the manga.

So Kakashi learned the MS?

That pales in comparison to what Sasuke achieved(Lol , I'm definitely no Sasuke fan , but a point is a point)

When he uses it , it drains tremendous chakra . Also , he is far from mastering the technique.

And tell me , did Kakashi have ANY clear cut wins at all?

Answer = No.

Simple as that.

And typing in caps is gay?

Heard of sarcasm
Wow , your usage of the word gay is intriguing beyond my imagination

You bore me bitch.

Take your time doing another TLDR .

I shouldn't waste any more of my life trying to communicate with a caveman .

No, because you said How Derogatory that is P H A I L, who says that?

Lol, how the hell could you think i ment something else.. i'm not that complex.

Tasteful in your eyes, for me it isn't.

I don't need signatures and avatars to post on a forum, I'm only condemning you and i don't hope to sound intellectual unlike yourself by the looks of things after all, i'm posting on a cartoon forum here.

Who's life is warped around a screen? , I'm doing things also you just think your shit out and still get it wrong, Lol n00b i take half the time.

It don't matter Kakashi Progessed, which is more than Orochimaru did?

Lol, you obviously read all of my posts, because you reply to everything, jackass. Btw, you want to take this out of this forum? Have any instant messaging programs , pm your screen name we'll see who is the n00b? Or you not up for it. I don't want to cloud this thread arguing with some guy. I didn't make this thread for that.

 

[Epsonica]

Frostman, It does not matter if Orochimaru is important or not,
Read my post that i said to Zabuza.
Damn why the posts so muddled o_O

 

[Sagara]

LOL at Tell-tale Sign, I just wrote that up there so people knew how much i've read of the manga, what has that got to do with being confident in my thread, If i said what i did without reading the complete Manga how would it be fair for me to say such things? You take me for a fool.

Oh, how Derogatory was P H A I L, that's not even a word that's just letters. You can do that below Six using the Alphabet. Also With Sigs and Avatars like that, you look like more the typical juvenile than me, i don't need to express anything unlike yourself.

I already Searched for a thread just like mine, like i said before and guess what? I found nothing like i already told you before, Seems like you have problems understanding uncomplicated statements.

GTFO? , this is my thread jackass. You GTFO.
Take a good look at your own actions before you call me a noob.

My my you're an insightful one

The fact that you need to blatantly announce to everyone that you've read the whole manga is clear that you're using it as a safety net in case you receive inflammatory posts regarding your already failing thread.

Yes , I do take you for a fool . Because you are one

You're saying that a word is Phail? How does one evaluate the fail levels of a word?

That isn't even a word? What , did you mom drop you too many times as a kid or something? Look the goddamn definition of word you Neanderthal .

You can do below six using the alphabet? Are you basically saying that what words aren't useful? OH LAWL , what about lawyers? Who require words to win cases. Or poets who express themselves oh so eloquently through W-O-R-D-S.

Lol at you trying to flame me to the point of completely going out of context.

With sigs and avatars like that? Elaborate please . 90 percent of the population of NF has a signature , and how is mine juvenile? Please do enligten me.

Ok, i'm seriously upset at Masashi - how he dealt with Orochimaru in Part 2, he was made to be a complete powerhouse of a villian in part 1. I'm not arguing about what happened (unless you want to) , I'm wondering why Masashi did this.

In part 2 They made pretty much all of Orochimaru's performances Sub par, Kakashi's performances were the opposite. Alright this is what i don't understand back in Part 1 Kakashi vs Orochimaru - Kakashi did not even stand a chance of winning. Keep this in mind.

Alright, So now Orochimaru is training Sasuke in CS2, Now i'll tell you something about training why would you train someone who is more powerful than you? That makes no Sense you have to be trained by someone greater in this case Oro is greater, Oro has more power.

Keeping on track now - Sasuke CS2 is more powerful than Naruto,
Year after year this won't change. Orochimaru is seen still training Sasuke After he fights with Naruto in Four tails , So Oro is still teaching him, So he is still Greater than Sasuke.

Alright, About the Kyuubi fight, i'm skipping that one that's not a proper fight and i don't care what anyone says no way could Naruto with even 4 tails kill Orochimaru. By the way if you want to argue about this just tell me. But hey let's talk about Sasuke

How in hell did Orochimaru lose so easily against him? Their differences in power was so great in Part 1. How would 3 years make such a difference? Especially when Orochimaru is the one training Sasuke. Remember what i said about Training.

That's all - looks like a big mess to me, To me it looks like Oro is gone forever without any big fight or explanation or nothing that's not the way for a ninja with his kind of power to die? Seriously he better come back as just one "Orochimaru" , did Masashi just make the most popular story he could by making the more popular characters stronger because that would equal more viewers which equals more money.
It just don't seem realistic by any stretch of my imagination.
Very open to discussion

P.S (I only just thought about this whole thing properly the other day which is why i didn't post this sooner also i'm pretty new here)

Have you been smoking or something? Kakashi has been so out of the limelight for part 2, he had one brief fight with Kakuzu and even briefer fight with Deidara. Neither with any clear outcome. Is that your definition of a strong fight?

Please Get The Fuck Off The Internet.

 

[Doom85]

Remember kids, Naruto and Sasuke going from Genin level to high Chunnin/low Jonin level in 2 months is acceptable, but going for high Chunnin level/low Jonin level to Kage level in 30 months is unaccaptable.

Also, Itachi beat Orochimaru when he had a body that was working perfectly, and I don't see the OP calling foul on that. But ultimately, the "years trained = determination of power level" B.S. was ended ratherly shortly in the manga:

as evident by the fact Sasuke was using a chakra type Oro hadn't seen before

Kishimoto said it: more years of training will not always put you ahead. Argument ended.

 

[Doom85]

WTF? Something's wrong with my clock.

 

[Doom85]

Ooooookay, this is weird. Everyone's 15 minutes or so ahead of me. Odd.

 

[Epsonica]

My my you're an insightful one

The fact that you need to blatantly announce to everyone that you've read the whole manga is clear that you're using it as a safety net in case you receive inflammatory posts regarding your already failing thread.

Yes , I do take you for a fool . Because you are one

You're saying that a word is Phail? How does one evaluate the fail levels of a word?

That isn't even a word? What , did you mom drop you too many times as a kid or something? Look the goddamn definition of word you Neanderthal .

You can do below six using the alphabet? Are you basically saying that what words aren't useful? OH LAWL , what about lawyers? Who require words to win cases. Or poets who express themselves oh so eloquently through W-O-R-D-S.

Lol at you trying to flame me to the point of completely going out of context.

With sigs and avatars like that? Elaborate please . 90 percent of the population of NF has a signature , and how is mine juvenile? Please do enligten me.



Have you been smoking or something? Kakashi has been so out of the limelight for part 2, he had one brief fight with Kakuzu and even briefer fight with Deidara. Neither with any clear outcome. Is that your definition of a strong fight?

Please Get The Fuck Off The Internet.

HAHA NO.
I'm saying okay get ready, a nice clear space for you.

how Derogatory = P H A I L

LOL, wow you're the insightful one.
You cannot flame me when you make mistakes by yourself.
Also, i thought you would not waste any more of your precious time on my thread oh well, looks like you did , n00b.

And i'm basically saying you saying P H A I L, in that context is more childish than me saying another clear line because you have trouble understanding the easiest of sentences.

P H A I L is your Sig and Avatar i would rather have nothing.
Also you take too long to reply, n00b. I thought you would be better than me at it with your almighty number of posts.

What am i smoking, you're the one who doesn't even understand what i'm posting.

Changing the subject now? I thought you were leaving?
Pffft you're the n00b i might not have as many posts as you do, but i pwn you still in text.

Also whats with the retarded capital letter in each word of your last sentence that's not needed looks gay also i'd like to see you try and make me get off.

Kakashi had Mangekyo Sharingan in part two.
In Kakashi's performances he did very well.
That's what i'm talking about i did not even say anything about how much he was in it.
Christ you're boring me to tears.

 

[Zabuzalives]

Ok, i'm seriously upset at Masashi - how he dealt with Orochimaru in Part 2, he was made to be a complete powerhouse of a villian in part 1. I'm not arguing about what happened (unless you want to) , I'm wondering why Masashi did this.

In part 2 They made pretty much all of Orochimaru's performances Sub par, Kakashi's performances were the opposite. Alright this is what i don't understand back in Part 1 Kakashi vs Orochimaru - Kakashi did not even stand a chance of winning. Keep this in mind.

I feel the same here. Oro was reduced to fodder for hyping Uchihas, perhaps his low popularity in Japan played a role in the change.

Alright, So now Orochimaru is training Sasuke in CS2, Now i'll tell you something about training why would you train someone who is more powerful than you? That makes no Sense you have to be trained by someone greater in this case Oro is greater, Oro has more power.

1. Teaching can be done by someone with more wisdom/experience, not necessarely someone more powerful.

2. Oro was stronger then Sasuke. (Or atleast..so he thought.)

Keeping on track now - Sasuke CS2 is more powerful than Naruto,
Year after year this won't change. Orochimaru is seen still training Sasuke After he fights with Naruto in Four tails , So Oro is still teaching him, So he is still Greater than Sasuke.

teacher doesnt have to be stronger. There are many stories of students killing their teachers. Either by deceit or taking unfair advantage/suprise, or simply surpassing their teacher.

Alright, About the Kyuubi fight, i'm skipping that one that's not a proper fight and i don't care what anyone says no way could Naruto with even 4 tails kill Orochimaru. By the way if you want to argue about this just tell me. But hey let's talk about Sasuke

manga fact>>>> your opinion sorry.

4 tails could kill oro, but as it is, Oro fought him off, and would have just walked away/escaped while letting kn4 rampage and wear naruto out.

How in hell did Orochimaru lose so easily against him? Their differences in power was so great in Part 1. How would 3 years make such a difference? Especially when Orochimaru is the one training Sasuke. Remember what i said about Training.

Yes Sasuke got an unbelievable power-up. very Shounen-like, where teens get massive unrealistic increases in power handed to them.

then again, Sasuke is this more then once in a decade genius of the most HAX bloodline clan in the naruto world.

Itachi was also very strong at a young age.


I dont like the huge jump, but i can tolerate it.


Also because Oro's body was REJECTING him and he was days away from DYING, lying ill on his deathbed when Sasuke attacked. Oro was in a very weakened state when he fought Sasuke.

Even then he succeeded in his first goal: initiating the sould transfer.

It all fell down after that cause of a combo of Sharingan and ""willpower"" reverted the jutsu against him. (which was kinda lame but oh well)

That's all - looks like a big mess to me, To me it looks like Oro is gone forever without any big fight or explanation or nothing that's not the way for a ninja with his kind of power to die?

we dont know if he's gone forever, how far are you with the manga even?

But yeah, Oro deserved a better ending.



I feel the same about several points but several of your logic and arguments are flawed.

 

[Sagara]

HAHA NO.
I'm saying okay get ready, a nice clear space for you.

how Derogatory = P H A I L

LOL, wow you're the insightful one.
You cannot flame me when you make mistakes by yourself.
Also, i thought you would not waste any more of your precious time on my thread oh well, looks like you did , n00b.

And i'm basically saying you saying P H A I L, in that context is more childish than me saying another clear line because you have trouble understanding the easiest of sentences.

P H A I L is your Sig and Avatar i would rather have nothing.
Also you take too long to reply, n00b. I thought you would be better than me at it with your almighty number of posts.

What am i smoking, you're the one who doesn't even understand what i'm posting.

Changing the subject now? I thought you were leaving?
Pffft you're the n00b i might not have as many posts as you do, but i pwn you still in text.

Also whats with the retarded capital letter in each word of your last sentence that's not needed looks gay also i'd like to see you try and make me get off.

Kakashi had Mangekyo Sharingan in part two.
In Kakashi's performances he did very well.
That's what i'm talking about i did not even say anything about how much he was in it.
Christ you're boring me to tears.

How derogatory = Phail?

You're making even less sense boy. Perhaps use a dictionary , derogatory = showing critical attitude towards something. It isn't a continent or something.

It's not that I have trouble understanding the easiest of sentences , perhaps learn something called apercu , you prick .

So I changed my mind , shoot me.

You would rather having nothing? Ever heard of a little word called perogative? Lol , an iq test never hurt anyone. It's my goddamn problem if I wanna have a sig , at least it's tasteful.

Perhaps because you're as artistically inclined an intoxicated grandpa and having no sense of aesthetics as well , you try in a not so valiant attempt to condemn everyone with sigs , hoping you'd sound intellectual? Lawl.

How are we measuring who pawns who in text again? I'm beyond confident that I can articulate milestones better than you.

I take too long to reply? Perhaps because I was too busy doing other things , my life isn't warped around a screen you know?

And I'd rather take my time articulating a post with quality , not some jargon I pulled out of my mom's ass ala-you.

Now then , back to the manga.

So Kakashi learned the MS?

That pales in comparison to what Sasuke achieved(Lol , I'm definitely no Sasuke fan , but a point is a point)

When he uses it , it drains tremendous chakra . Also , he is far from mastering the technique.

And tell me , did Kakashi have ANY clear cut wins at all?

Answer = No.

Simple as that.

And typing in caps is gay?

Heard of sarcasm
Wow , your usage of the word gay is intriguing beyond my imagination

You bore me bitch.

Take your time doing another TLDR .

I shouldn't waste any more of my life trying to communicate with a caveman .

 

[HumanWine]

Jiraiya trained the 4th and the 4th has been shitting on Jiraiya since birth ( he learned a technique from his own student).
Jiraiya trained Naruto, the 4th's son, and almost killed him.
Jiraiya trained Pein and Pein killed him.

Yet Jiraiya is honored and loved by all although he's a phailing pervert.

Orochimaru is one of the baddest Mothafukers to come out of the Hidden in the Leaves village.
Orochimaru was choosen as a child by the 3rd Hokage, to be the next Hokage.
Orochimaru has be a never ending journey to master all the jutsus in the world, so he at least has to have over 100.
Orochimaru was the main thing driving the plot of the Naruto manga series.

Yet he gets pwned by every Uchiha he comes in contact with for less than a minute. He's first defeated in the saddest way I've ever seen......on his dam dead bed. When he finally comes back a million years later, He has this no Hydra form the size of a mountain. Instead of trying to take over Sasuke's body like his 100 year long plan was too, he attacks Itachi that just brought out a new AquaMecha out his eye with a uber haxx sword. Orochimaru doesnt even finish his 3 sentence b4 his soul is sealed forever.

 

[K-Mace]

Exactly - Sasuke beating Oro was one of the dumbest plotholes in the history of manga.

 

[ameterasu_41]

he's still in kabuto, so I don't know why you said he's gone forever. and the fact that he was teaching Sasuke merely meant he knew some things Sasuke didn't. Phil Jackson coached Michael Jordan but it didn't mean he was better at basketball.

you want a plothole, look at how weak Kakashi is compared to some of the the higher level shinobi. his dad was on par with the sannin, yet with an extra powerup his dad didn't have, Kakashi had no shot at defeating Oro. the new generation surpassing the old must only apply to Sasuke.