Masked Tōsen vs Top Espada (0-4)

Gwiber

Well-Known Member
Ulquiorra
Harribel
Baraggan
Starrk
Yammy

Tōsen starts masked, of course, Espada start in base with the exception of Yammy, who starts with R1.

Scenario 1: Tōsen in character, so won't use his zanpakuto abilities
Scenario 2: Tōsen will use his zanpakuto abilities and starts with Shikai + Mask

Restrictions: Grillar Grillo and Segunda Etapa
 

TrueTrueTrue

Well-Known Member
Tousen loses both rounds. I don't think his power eclipsing Komamura translates to the Espadas. Harribel was ragdolling Hitsugaya while she was in base and he was in Bankai. Barragan can't be touched by anything he does. Starrk will shit on him. Ulquiorra is the closest, and he has Segunda Etapa. SE is banned, but I think a Cero Oscuras breaks his mask and ends the fight.

Tousen is very powerful, but I truly believe the top four Espada are way more powerful than anyone else on this forum gives them credit for, and I can't imagine him defeating them without his own Ress.
 

Zharknd

Member
Tōsen talked a lot, when he said that no Espada was at his level, and ends up being humiliated by Komamura and ... Hisagi... I was really disappointed by that, by the way I consider Tōsen bankai to be very dangerous.
 

docj

i have returned
This in character “Tousen won’t use his Zanpaktou abilities has to stop” Tousen was shown in FKT USING Suzumishi. He did not use his Zanpaktou abilities against Komamura because he explicitly wanted to show him how powerful he’d become.

If Tousen encountered an enemy to match his abilities he in character would hesitate to use the full extent of his powers as evidenced by his fight against Kenpachi in SS.

Scenario 1 with him restricted he loses to all of the combatants


Scenario 2 Tousen with Mask and Zanpaktou abilities defeats all except Barragan
 

docj

i have returned
Suzumushi isn't doing shit to Starrk or Harribel lmfao
Listen to yourself and check your Bias at the door

A Shikai that effortlessly pierced Zenkai boosted Kenpachi and a Hax bankai that negates all senses isn’t doing Shit to Starkk who was defeated by a Shikai, and Halibel who was also defeated by a Bankai and was held in check by masked vice captains ?

Do Better
 

TrueTrueTrue

Well-Known Member
It pierced a Zaraki that could barely fight against Nnoitra. And did nothing. It didn't slow him. It made him bleed and he laughed at it.

Starrk dodges it, Harribel washes it away, Ulquiorra dodges it, all of them can probably eat it and not be hurt that bad due to hierro. This shit weak af bro.
 
Base Ulquiorra vs Mask Tosen = Base Ulq Very High diff
Base Harribel vs Mask Tosen = Base Harribel Very High diff
Base Barragan vs Mask Tosen = Barragan wins with mid-high diff
Base Starrk vs Mask Tosen = Starrk wins with mid-high diff

R1 Ulq vs Mask Tosen = Ulquiorra flies towards him , tanks his sword that can only nick KTM and then cero oscuras him to oblivion
R1 Harribel vs Mask Tosen = Harribel cuts him in half just like she cutted Bankai Toshiro
R1 Barragan vs Mask Tosen = Respira GG
R1 Starrk vs Mask Tosen = Blitzed , Colmillo sword one through throat , other in the eye. Then 10 wolves to eat the corpse.
 

docj

i have returned
It pierced a Zaraki that could barely fight against Nnoitra.
Kenpachi was literally palming and talking Nnorita’s attacks. The only time Nnorita got a solid shot on him was the sneak attack when he played dead.
And did nothing. It didn't slow him. It made him bleed and he laughed at it.
False. If it didn’t do nothing it would have pierced him. Zaraki’s freak endurance isn’t relative to the attack itself. We see it damaged him point blank end of story.
Starrk dodges it,
Speculative
Harribel washes it away,
Speculative
Ulquiorra dodges it,
Speculative
all of them can probably eat it and not be hurt that bad due to hierro.
Tell that to Grimmjow who was literally disarmed by BASE Tousen sealed sword. This is his masked incarnation and Zanpaktou abilities
This shit weak af bro.
i can see now why MB flames your ass
 

TrueTrueTrue

Well-Known Member
Anyone who flames me takes this way too seriously, but I think its fun af to flame on this forum, so I'll excuse your uppity tone.

You were right that Tousen shit on Grimmjow though, that's a good feat in my eyes. But I still think the top 3 Espada mangle him, he ain't doing shit. Suzumushi sucks ass against actual opponents.
 

docj

i have returned
Anyone who flames me takes this way too seriously, but I think its fun af to flame on this forum, so I'll excuse your uppity tone.
No that just means I can’t take you serious in an actual debate. Alot of your arguments are from ignorance.
You were right that Tousen shit on Grimmjow though, that's a good feat in my eyes. But I still think the top 3 Espada mangle him
Base Tousen shit on the same Grimmjow who was able to fight against and get the upper hand on Base Ulquiorra in a scuffle. Tousen in base has feats that put him at minimum equal or greater to base Ulquiorra. Stack the bankai boost of a Mask and the boost of his actual bankai Hax on top of that, he isn’t getting mangled by anyone.
, he ain't doing shit. Suzumushi sucks ass against actual opponents.
Bias speculative bullshit.

Suzumishi was successful everytime it was deployed

Dropped Uryu
Pierced powered up Zaraki.

You would to prove the Espada have Zaraki level endurance to take the attack head on and be unscathed from an even stronger version of Tousen
 

TrueTrueTrue

Well-Known Member
Bro it dropped Uryu without powers and it pierced Zaraki and then immedietly Tousen was like well that was useless, time to go Bankai.

I don't have to prove shit, you have to show me a single time where a Shikai attack, masked or not, damaged an Espada. You can't, I already know you can't, so this whole argument is bullshit. Without Ress, he loses. Sorry.
 
Bro it dropped Uryu without powers and it pierced Zaraki and then immedietly Tousen was like well that was useless, time to go Bankai.

I don't have to prove shit, you have to show me a single time where a Shikai attack, masked or not, damaged an Espada. You can't, I already know you can't, so this whole argument is bullshit. Without Ress, he loses. Sorry.

Well I mean the fact that Tosen sealed sword can cut with one attack Base Grimmjow's whole arm should mean that Suzumushi Shikai will do even more damage than his sealed sword. Tosen should be able to damage Espada 10-6 skin with sealed sword or shikai

But anything above 6. Like Nnoitra or Ulquiorra are way too much for Shinigami Tosen. Evidently the Kenpachi who destroyed Bankai Tosen and laughed at his Shikai was almost dead by Nnoitra. He needed to take off the eyepatch and use 2 hands to beat the 5th Espada

So yeah Tosen can be argued to be stronger than Grimmjow. But Nnoitra and above destroy him.
 

docj

i have returned
Bro it dropped Uryu without powers and it pierced Zaraki and then immedietly Tousen was like well that was useless, time to go Bankai.
You said it was useless, and I gave you examples of successful attacks. Zaraki’s unique endurance is not relative of the attack itself being successful. You’re moving Goalposts at this point dude.
I don't have to prove shit, you have to show me a single time where a Shikai attack, masked or not, damaged an Espada.
From Tousen? His base sealed sword is capable of damaging an Espada so his Shikai would also be enough. From others? Shunsui Killed Starkk with a Shikai, Masked Mashiro pushed released Halibel back with a Shikai, Love smacked Released Starkk with a Shikai, etc
You can't, I already know you can't, so this whole argument is bullshit. Without Ress, he loses. Sorry.
I just did. Stop arguing from ignorance
 

monkeybananas

Well-Known Member
Anyone who flames me takes this way too seriously, but I think its fun af to flame on this forum, so I'll excuse your uppity tone.

You were right that Tousen shit on Grimmjow though, that's a good feat in my eyes. But I still think the top 3 Espada mangle him, he ain't doing shit. Suzumushi sucks ass against actual opponents.
Have I ever flamed you???

@docj you good my man? do i need some people to pay you a visit?
 

Mar55

The Darkness Rises
I don't think his power eclipsing Komamura translates to the Espadas.
Well, why wouldn't it? Bankai were considered aces and portrayed fatal/finishers to even the upper Espada. Komamura's power was hyped by an even stronger Tōsen, when he was already capable of easily dispatching mid level Espada.

Tōsen no sold a swing so hard it rebounded to the sender and broke the blade, then one shot flattened the Bankai itself. This is such a dramatic feat at the time, it was made a point to demonstrate Aizen's power via doing the exact same thing. This should paint a picture of extreme power to anyone paying a modicum of attention.
Harribel was ragdolling Hitsugaya while she was in base and he was in Bankai.
Hitsugaya's Bankai is ability focused, it didn't raise his stats (outside of durability via wings) until he mastered it. She was always physically superior him, so Bankai wouldn't change anything unless he disengaged and utilized ranged attacks. This is why he later defeats her head on after she released, as be began to play to his strengths.

humiliated by Komamura
You must be as blind as Tōsen was to believe he was humiliated by Komamura in that fight.
 

Colmillo

Well-Known Member
Tousen who is a chill dude obliges. He unleashes Enma Korogi for Starkk and decapitates him
With what feats? And what’s stopping stark from spamming ceros all around him, making tousen back up off of him, and possibly destroying Enma Korogi in the process? The wolves are also an option for offensive and defensive measures.

the Bankai also seems to be restricted to a set area. Stark has shown the capability to Travel vast distances in a single step, so why are you even assuming that he would even Be caught?

There’s a lot of assumptions you’re making, like you saying starks head would be taken off? I would love to see proof for that.
 

Vasto Lorde King

Leader of We Dem Boys!
I have base tousen at between surpressed ulquiorra and full power ulquiorra level in base in terms of speed so a higher starting point then ulq fight bankai ichigo+ a more complete hollowfication wich we are revealed is close to arrancarnisation as that was the end goal. He'd wipe any of the espadas in base to base except for barragan.Tousen even while masked might still very well be slower then base stark tough, but honestly I don't see stark winning. as tousen has him beat in every other stat. He loses to all espadas in thier Released forms tough.

With abilities and kubo revealing he can use his abilities, his bankai is actually incredibly broken tough, he'd lost to yammy, as yammy is too big, barragan is respira so gg, stark, ulquiorra and halibel could lose 50/50.
 

docj

i have returned
With what feats?
My post was a joke bro but I’ll bite
And what’s stopping stark from spamming ceros all around him, making tousen back up off of him, and
His complete lack of spiritual sense. We know that spiritual sense is required for spiritual attacks, which means without it Starkk is fucked.
possibly destroying Enma Korogi in the process?
EK is not a destroyable physical construct. It is a dome made out of reiatsu. Unless you defeat Tousen the dome stays up
The wolves are also an option for offensive and defensive measures.
He won’t be able to summon them under the effects of the dome. Without sight, smell, or spiritual sense the wolves wouldn’t know who to even attack or go after. It’s even arguable if Starkk could even summon them with his spiritual connections cut off
the Bankai also seems to be restricted to a set area. Stark has shown the capability to Travel vast distances in a single step, so why are you even assuming that he would even Be caught?
Is Starkk’s first reaction to run before being decapitated, or would he be shocked and try to rationalize what’s going on as per his character?

He didn’t run from anyone he fought but now he puts on track shoes for Tousen?

There’s a lot of assumptions you’re making, like you saying starks head would be taken off? I would love to see proof for that.
in character Tousen who if he doesn’t have a personal grudge against you goes for the kill.

He murdered his entire squad, he also attempted to decapitate Shinji on his first attempt at an attack. Tousen goes for Vitals. Starkk doesn’t even need to be beheaded to lose as Tousen could Just slash his hollow hole like Shunsui did.

All of these “attacks” are highly probable and high percentage if Starkk was under the effects of EK
 
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docj

i have returned
Well, he is around R1 Ulquiorra at best in powerlevel, and all of this characters can neg his Bankai with big AoE attacks.
Tell me how can anyone neg anything without spirit sense ? Where would you aim at where would you shoot?

If by chance you’re actually able to use spiritual attacks with your spirit senses cut off you’re more likely to injure yourself with your own AOE than Tousen who could easily dodge or move away from you.
 

lol 4th dimension reiatsu

Well-Known Member
Tell me how can anyone neg anything without spirit sense ? Where would you aim at where would you shoot?

If by chance you’re actually able to use spiritual attacks with your spirit senses cut off you’re more likely to injure yourself with your own AOE than Tousen who could easily dodge or move away from you.

No need to aim, shoot away from their body, that's easy with the sense of touch still active.

Zaraki could still use his reiatsu and move his body, I don't see why the Espada couldn't just use their techniques.
 

Colmillo

Well-Known Member
His complete lack of spiritual sense. We know that spiritual sense is required for spiritual attacks, which means without it Starkk is fucked.
Where is this stated? All tousen said is that the bankai takes away the ability for the opponent to Sense spiritual pressure. He never stated that it took away the ability to create spiritual attacks. Like dude, just because someone can’t sense spiritual pressure, it doesn’t mean their ability to Create spiritual attacks are gone. That’s like saying that Because Someone like isshin isn’t able to sense Chrysalis aizen he can’t create a getsuga(despite him doing so against aizen).
EK is not a destroyable physical construct. It is a done made out of reiatsu. Unless you defeat Tousen the dome stays up
Where was this stated? And why is it relevant? Physical constructs made of either reishi or Reiatsu can be broken. It is a bankai that literally creates a physical environment, and even breaks into pieces like something that can be physically constructed. There’s nothing saving it against a constant barrage of ceros. Especially higher power attacks like CO or 1000 ceros which can easily shave the dome off of las noches.
It’s even arguable if Starkk could even summon them with his spiritual connections cut off
Again, his Bankai was never stated to restrict the ability for the person to Make spiritual attacks. Nor are Starks wolves made like that. They are shaved from pieces of stark souls, so In short, both of those claims are irrelevant. As for the wolves being affected? They are literally controlled by stark himself. Stark may have lost the ability to see and what not, but he has seen the terrain beforehand and the Area that the bankai has infiltrated before being trapped(if he is trapped, which there is no proof of). He still has the ability to think, and can still send the wolves to whatever location he wants. Zaraki was trapped, but it didn’t stop him from thinking and or dodging through reflexes(something stark has)
what’s going on as per his character?
When has he ever tried to rationalize what happened to him before the attack even connects(that doesn’t even make sense)? Again, you’re making the assumption that tousens bankai would even trap someone like stark. Despite the bankai being perceived by someone who was blitze by base stark. Then there’s also the fact that Tousen also has to start it up in a time wasting manner, and then there’s also the fact that it still has to cover said area.

did you also forget that stark is an intelligent person? He doesn’t freak out about things he can’t understand. He keeps a cool mind and tries to find a solution accordingly.
He didn’t run from anyone he fought but now he puts on track shoes for Tousen?
Uh?:

stark likes to keep his distance, he’s a long ranged fighter at heart. There’s literally nothing stopping him from taking steps back and even using sonido to create distance between him and the set up bankai.
Tousen goes for Vitals.

Reflex and Speed. Things stark has a lot of, and by feats, more than tousen.
Starkk doesn’t even need to be beheaded to lose as Tousen could Just slash his hollow hole like Shunsui did.
Above. Why are you even assuming tousen will even get close?
 

Adamant soul

Well-Known Member
Just Masked Tosen? Frankly I don't see him beating any of them without his Zanpaktou abilities and even then, he has no answer for Respira and Stark can just spam wolves all around him. He would beat R1 Ulquiorra and Harribel with his Bankai though.

With his resurrection, he's basically on par with the top Espada (Stark, R2 Ulq and Yammy) and any of them would be a high diff fight at least, unless he uses his Bankai as well.
 
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