Madara Helped Itachi Kill Shisui

[NinjaGod13]

I have always been suspicious of the events regarding the death of Uchiha Shisui. In fact, the point that has been throwing me off is that the police found his body in the Nakano river, and concluded that he committed suicide.
He'd make a good admin

Let me repeat that, the Konoha police force, equiped with Sharingans did NOT detect any physical evidence of a homicide.

In fact, the only evidence they could conjure up was the fact that any sharingan user could mimic his handwriting, thus negating the suicide note, and that it was an extremely odd thing to do for someone with so much pride for the clan.
He'd make a good admin
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I'll repeat, they could not find any other evidence that would suggest that Shisui's death was anything other than suicide.
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This shows that they're trying to flush Itachi out in the hopes that he will incriminate himself.

I hope you're following me so far.

How does Madara fit in all this, right? Why couldn't Itachi have just killed him, after all he was the prodigy of the Uchiha.
Because "Uchiha Shisui was said to be the most skilled of the Uchiha clan."(leafninja.com) and the police found no physical evidence to suggest that Shisui was murdered.

This is my theory: I believe that Madara used a MS Genjutsu technique (not necessarily Tsukiyomi, but something similar) that paralyzed Shisui and allowed Itachi to drown him.

I've thought about this alot, and its the only possible way that I can see these events playing out (unless Shisui is still alive).

Note: Itachi has stated that he had to kill Shisui(his best friend) in order to activate the MS, therefore he did not have the ability to Tsukiyomi him and throw him in the river to drown.

 

[maximilyan]

No. itachi had special training from madaram whike shushi was merely skilled. itachi had MS at the time, i doubt shushi did.

 

[NinjaGod13]

No. itachi had special training from madaram whike shushi was merely skilled. itachi had MS at the time, i doubt shushi did.

Given what Itachi has said, he had to kill Shisui(his best friend) in order to achieve MS. He could not have had it at the time, unless he has continually been lying to us.

 

[TheProfessor]

No. itachi had special training from madaram whike shushi was merely skilled. itachi had MS at the time, i doubt shushi did.

wait how did he have ms during the fight. he got ms after killing him and if he did kill him i think it would be a really messy fight. the cops would have seen the signs of a struggle (especailly with the super sharigan eyes acting like a forensic equipment). Thus im coming to the only other conclusion that mandara did infact help itachi.

 

[bacon753951]

Itachi said that MAdara has grown old and is now a piece of crap.... So how could he help? Or did he just grow old really fast?? Itachi is a protogy and his friend was just a geniuss. And itachi has to kill him to get the MS. SO therefore Madara didn't do pancakes.

 

[Blind Weasel]

we all know Madara is Shisui... who was Obito... who was the Original Madara all this time under a disguise of a kid...


or something ...

 

[Pain's rikudou!!]

really funny

 

[Isabelle Lestrange]

I think Madara would have watched, but I don't think he would have helped. After all, if Itachi couldn't beat Shisui, why would Madara even want him to join Akatsuki when he could have Shisui?

Most characters (well, the villains mostly) only see others as useful and worthwhile if they are strong. Even if Shisui wouldn't want to join, I don't see someone like Madara helping him. If anything, Itachi defeating Shisui on his own would be more like a test, in my opinion anyways.

 

[NinjaGod13]

wait how did he have ms during the fight. he got ms after killing him and if he did kill him i think it would be a really messy fight. the cops would have seen the signs of a struggle (especailly with the super sharigan eyes acting like a forensic equipment). Thus im coming to the only other conclusion that mandara did infact help itachi.

Right. This is what I had been thinking about. It seems you and I are on the same page when it comes to this situation.

I think Madara would have watched, but I don't think he would have helped. After all, if Itachi couldn't beat Shisui, why would Madara even want him to join Akatsuki when he could have Shisui?

Most characters (well, the villains mostly) only see others as useful and worthwhile if they are strong. Even if Shisui wouldn't want to join, I don't see someone like Madara helping him. If anything, Itachi defeating Shisui on his own would be more like a test, in my opinion anyways. .

It might be possible, but it would just be a massive plothole if Madara only watched. Itachi and Shisui were said to be near equals, if not so. So why no evidence of a murder? Or struggle? Or poison? (Since Sasuke can see his own bloodstream, I imagine they could view poison within the body in seconds.) It would be similar to the Sasuke V. Itachi fight right now, since both of them are on an even level, yet if the police were to stumble upon either Itachi or Sasuke, it would be obvious that there was a massive struggle.

As to why Madara would help Itachi instead of Shisui, I can only guess. Perhaps Madara needs a new EMS and Itachi and Sasuke are the best viable options. Perhaps it was because Itachi held more potential than Shisui. Madara does appear to have the capability to determine future potential (well, it was just one panel, but Madara has lived longer than any other Uchiha and therefore should have the most experience).

It really is the only way I can see this situation being played out credibly.

 

[tantan]

huh.. they were equals? that's something new..

 

[Stonkeep]

It might be possible, but it would just be a massive plothole if Madara only watched. Itachi and Shisui were said to be near equals, if not so. So why no evidence of a murder? Or struggle? Or poison? (Since Sasuke can see his own bloodstream, I imagine they could view poison within the body in seconds.) It would be similar to the Sasuke V. Itachi fight right now, since both of them are on an even level, yet if the police were to stumble upon either Itachi or Sasuke, it would be obvious that there was a massive struggle.

Do we even know if Shisui had Sheringan ? I couldnt find anything that suggest that and if he did not have it than its obvious Itachi can kill him with ease.

 

[Immortal_Gunn]

Shishu was said to be the most skilled Uchiha alive at the time, which would indicate he was comparable if not above Itachi, he had to have had the Sharingan - I believe Itachi had some assistance as he was pre-MS.

 

[lucid dream]

Shisui being described as highly skilled, etc. and his death looking like nothing but a drowning, was probably just meant to illustrate Itachi's strength/skill.

Also, even though Shisui was told to watch Itachi(because he was acting strange) do you really think he expected Itachi to actually kill him? I'm sure there was a huge element of surprise there, you wouldn't want to believe your best friend would be capable of killing you.
And being a shinobi isn't an answer here, time and again the shinobi in the Narutoverse have proven that they can't completely quell their emotions or trust.

Itachi was his friend, he didn't see it coming and on top of that they were probably equal in skill or Itachi had surpassed him by then(it's not that hard to believe). Not only was he already considered a genius and extremely talented by age 8(when he had already awakened the Sharingan), but by 10 he was Chuunin. It's also probably around the age of 10/11 that he met Madara and the teacher is just as important as the student. We don't really know how much Madara taught him, or if he was even more than a 'mentor', but if he did train him it's even easier to believe he could have been good enough to take out Shisui that way(especially with the aforementioned element of surprise).

Genjutsu is also a very strong possibility, it's Itachi's speciality, he even took it beyond what normal Uchiha's could do. We saw him disable Orochimaru with a genjutsu in a flashback, he was approx. 11 in that flasback(yes, Itachi was in Akatsuki pre-massacre, based on when Orochimaru was said to have left Akatsuki). He killed Shisui when he was 13, I think. Not that hard to imagine his genjutsu skills overpowered Shisui's. Shisuis only mentioned skill was speed, I believe. Though he has the Sharingan to be good at genjutsu, it doesn't mean is/has to be as good as Itachi.


Not to mention, Shisui=canon fodder, we didn't even SEE him in flashbacks yet. Itachi=one of the most important villains in the series.

Also, the very idea that you would still awaken the Mangekyou, even if someone helped you, is rather silly.

No. itachi had special training from madaram whike shushi was merely skilled. itachi had MS at the time, i doubt shushi did.

Wait, that's not possible because he had to kill Shisui to gain the MS.

 

[gtw1983]

Me being a believer in the idea that Itachi is not as evil as thought,I don't think he had the guts to outright kill him in cold blood.

Shisui was like a brother to ITachi so I think he for the most part trusted him.

I say that they were out walking by the river at night for some reason and Itachi knocked him out cold while he had his back turned.

Then he just threw his unconcious body in the river and nature took care of the rest.

I think in that case to the Uchiha police it would most certainly seem like just a drowning.

 

[Major]

Um, no ......

 

[Elsydeon Esper]

If you trust your enemy not to hurt you it's not hard to die. They just have to find an undetectable way to do it. And since he knew how the police force worked (his father and all) and he knows how ANBU works (he worked there) I'd say he had a good idea what they'd look for and found something they wouldn't be able to detect. It would only have to stay hidden until he planned to slaughter them all.

Inside job makes this easy to figure out. If I know how they run the tests I can find something the tests don't see.

Madara might have helped, but I doubt it. Why 'help' the genius when you could observe his potential to know what you're taking under your wing?

People who want Itachi to be a good guy make too many assumptions and use them to build theories. Try to rely on one or two assumptions (I still prefer Itachi being part of the root division. Distorted his views, but it didn't work as intended and he turned against Konoha) at most, that way you don't get too many steps away from a viable answer.

 

[NinjaGod13]

Also, even though Shisui was told to watch Itachi(because he was acting strange) do you really think he expected Itachi to actually kill him? I'm sure there was a huge element of surprise there, you wouldn't want to believe your best friend would be capable of killing you.

Possibly. I had thought of a surprise attack from Itachi before. To be honest however, I had not thought of Itachi using a genjutsu attack. I'll answer later on how I don't believe it though.

Itachi was his friend, he didn't see it coming and on top of that they were probably equal in skill or Itachi had surpassed him by then(it's not that hard to believe). Not only was he already considered a genius and extremely talented by age 8(when he had already awakened the Sharingan), but by 10 he was Chuunin.

Regardless, the clan still referred to Shisui as being one of the best. I am not saying that Itachi didn't possess the potential to pass Shisui, it just was that by that time, its hard for me to believe that Itachi can simply kill one of the Uchiha's best without any help and evidence of a struggle. If he could, then why wouldn't he do the same to his mother and father.

Genjutsu is also a very strong possibility, it's Itachi's speciality, he even took it beyond what normal Uchiha's could do. We saw him disable Orochimaru with a genjutsu in a flashback, he was approx. 11 in that flasback(yes, Itachi was in Akatsuki pre-massacre, based on when Orochimaru was said to have left Akatsuki). He killed Shisui when he was 13, I think. Not that hard to imagine his genjutsu skills overpowered Shisui's. Shisuis only mentioned skill was speed, I believe. Though he has the Sharingan to be good at genjutsu, it doesn't mean is/has to be as good as Itachi.

True, however I don't believe that Orochimaru should be used to establish Itachi's skill with genjutsu, since he did not have the sharingan. I'll point to Kakashi. Itachi used his strongest genjutsu technique on him, yet Kakashi was able to retain consciousness at least for a few moments, despite the fact that he possessed no Uchiha blood. If we apply this to Itachi V. Shisui, when Itachi didn't have Tsukiyomi and Shisui would have been able to present a better defense than Kakashi, it wouldn't work in my opinion. A surprise genjutsu attack, though, could work if written properly, however, it takes less than a second to activate the Sharingan, and Kakashi's statements to Chiyo represent to me that Tsukiyomi is the only known genjutsu technique that can occur in less than a second.

Not to mention, Shisui=canon fodder, we didn't even SEE him in flashbacks yet. Itachi=one of the most important villains in the series.

Which is odd considering how he was hyped and relevant to Itachi. I don't think he is fodder though. To me, those three policeman are fodder since they talked big, and were beaten easily, in a clear showing of Itachi's skill. We weren't witnesses to either the fight, or its aftermath, which would normally be the case when showcasing a character.


It is possible that Itachi used some super-strong genjutsu attack to incapacitate Shisui and throw him in the river, but it would lose a lot of credibility to me.