Kcm minato vs prime tobirama ( only taijustsu)

[CRXW]

Kcm minato vs prime tobirama
They only use taijustsu, whoever has the best combat speed should take the win.

 

[Aegon Targaryen]

Are chakra arms allowed?

 

[New Folder]

Minato curbfodderstomps, neg-diff.

 

[deltaniner]

Tobirama neg-diffs. Living Cucknato was barely capable of beating a chunin in Obito, and Edo Tensei are always weaker than they were alive, regardless of power ups. This would make KCM Cucknato chunin level at absolute best. More realistically speaking, he's likely barely genin level.

 

[CRXW]

Are chakra arms allowed?

No

 

[Avatar Twilight]

KCM Minato~>BSM Naruto(more than 10x)>MKCM2 Naruto~EMS Sasuke<EMS Madara<Tobirama. While the chain looks similar as they're both about 2 above EMS Sasuke, Minato has a far higher assertion scaling to the >10x SM amp. And don't bring up Tobirama blitzing Unstable Juubito, he didn't do that. He had tags in his body that fell out when Obito slashed through him. The only tagging he did there was marking Juubito under the arm, which KCM Minato could've done even more easily. And Tobirama only "blitzed" a mentally nerfed KCM Minato who was implied to be even below MKCM Naruto.

 

[Grinningfox]

Neither of these guys are known for their fisiticuffs but giving Minato a stat buff puts it cleanly in his favor.

 

[Aegon Targaryen]

Neither of these guys are known for their fisiticuffs

This isn't quite accurate. DB3 praises Minato as a good Taijutsu tutor and Tobirama openly praises Minato for his striking.

 

[Grinningfox]

This isn't quite accurate. DB3 praises Minato as a good Taijutsu tutor and Tobirama openly praises Minato for his striking.

Aside from the DB3 blurb that’s not really like super impressive and even the DB isn’t really compelling

Interesting tho

 

[Aegon Targaryen]

Aside from the DB3 blurb that’s not really like super impressive and even the DB isn’t really compelling

Interesting tho

Disagree. Tobirama praising you for striking speed (or anything, for that matter) is high praise, and the DB rarely praises someone for no reason, even if the praise can be hyperbolic at times.

From a feats standpoint, it also makes sense Minato's striking speed would be high. Dude flipped a kunai past full speed A4 of all people, and even Bee (who saved A4 the first time) wasn't confident he could counter Minato's strikes twice.

 

[Rin]

Tobirama's assault speed is superior. KCM Minato may be somewhat higher than KCM Naruto in the matter, not by an insane margin though, while KCM Naruto couldn't even follow Tobirama's strikes against Juubito, Obito bodyflicked, Tobirama marked him and Naruto was still processing information in the interim.

The question is, how Tobirama will surmount KCM Minato's resistance with only taijutsu? I don't think he can do that, honestly. So Minato triumphs due to his KCM Cloack.​

 

[Avatar Twilight]

@Aegon Targaryen What was funny?

 

[Yagami Uchiha]

KCM Minato~>BSM Naruto(more than 10x)>MKCM2 Naruto~EMS Sasuke<EMS Madara<Tobirama. While the chain looks similar as they're both about 2 above EMS Sasuke, Minato has a far higher assertion scaling to the >10x SM amp. And don't bring up Tobirama blitzing Unstable Juubito, he didn't do that. He had tags in his body that fell out when Obito slashed through him. The only tagging he did there was marking Juubito under the arm, which KCM Minato could've done even more easily. And Tobirama only "blitzed" a mentally nerfed KCM Minato who was implied to be even below MKCM Naruto.

• What’s (M)KCM2 Naruto?
• Tobirama isn’t above EMS Madara, not even close.
• The 10X boost is either retconned, or it doesn’t boost that much for strong people. I know that CM2, a watered down version of SM, was stated to give the user a 10X boost, but if that were so, then Naruto would’ve destroyed JJ Obito with BSM. Also, Imagine RSM. Crazy.

 

[Black zetsu]

Kcm Minato>~ kcm Naruto

---

He wins high diff

 

[Aegon Targaryen]

@Aegon Targaryen What was funny?

Calling KCM Minato superior or equal to BSM Naruto when even BM Minato ultimately chose to hang back and let his son (and Sasuke) do the fighting instead

KCM Minato wasn't "mentally nerfed" until Juubito started calling him out and blaming him for everything. Until then, he was mostly fine and even cracking jokes with everyone.

 

[t0xeus]

Tobirama is quicker in combat speed but lacks the feats to suggest he can get through KCM cloak with mere punches and kicks.

Minato outlasts.

 

[Rin]

@Aegon Targaryen What was funny?

Your arguments.
​

 

[Speedyamell]

Minato stomps with superior stats

 

[Avatar Twilight]

• What’s (M)KCM2 Naruto?

Mastered KCM2

• Tobirama isn’t above EMS Madara, not even close.

In speed I meant

• The 10X boost is either retconned, or it doesn’t boost that much for strong people. I know that CM2, a watered down version of SM, was stated to give the user a 10X boost, but if that were so, then Naruto would’ve destroyed JJ Obito with BSM. Also, Imagine RSM. Crazy.

No, it just means KCM2 Naruto was more than 10x weaker than Juubito.

Calling KCM Minato superior or equal to BSM Naruto when even BM Minato ultimately chose to hang back and let his son (and Sasuke) do the fighting instead

Oh right, forgot about Fanverse differentiating between KCM Minato and BM Minato when Minato never used KCM1. If we're only using "KCM1" Minato, then I'll use the scale of KCM Minato>Base Minato>Tobirama.

Minato only had 1 arm (KCM Minato~>1 Armed KCM Minato~BSM Naruto) and didn't have senjutsu so Sasuke was just a better choice in that instance.

KCM Minato wasn't "mentally nerfed" until Juubito started calling him out and blaming him for everything. Until then, he was mostly fine and even cracking jokes with everyone.

He was clearly conflicted throughout the fight.

 

[Aegon Targaryen]

Oh right, forgot about Fanverse differentiating between KCM Minato and BM Minato when Minato never used KCM1

Not about what Fanverse does, it's about what the manga does. And yes, Minato used KCM before using BM.

Minato's eyes look normal here (ET aside).



Here, he has the Kurama eye slits (top left).

If we're only using "KCM1" Minato, then I'll use the scale of Tobirama~ KCM Minato>Base Minato

Fixed

Minato only had 1 arm (KCM Minato~>1 Armed KCM Minato~BSM Naruto) and didn't have senjutsu so Sasuke was just a better choice in that instance

So?

Minato could have made chakra arms and his Kurama avatar is completely unaffected by the missing arm.

He was clearly conflicted throughout the fight.

Not really

The most you can argue is that he had moments of indecision and doubt at times, but he wasn't that way throughout the fight. Dude cracked jokes and was even happy at times about his son.



Praises Naruto (and Sasuke) internally with a smile on his face.



Mentions the funny name of his jutsu, which Tobirama almost pokes fun at.



Acts with equal purpose and determination as Tobirama (unless you wanna argue he was mentally nerfed too).

Also, pretty sure the Databook was referring to THIS moment (when Minato really was depressed and needed Kurama and Naruto to shake him out of his funk).

 

[Yagami Uchiha]

Mastered KCM2

In speed I meant

No, it just means KCM2 Naruto was more than 10x weaker than Juubito.

Oh right, forgot about Fanverse differentiating between KCM Minato and BM Minato when Minato never used KCM1. If we're only using "KCM1" Minato, then I'll use the scale of KCM Minato>Base Minato>Tobirama.

Minato only had 1 arm (KCM Minato~>1 Armed KCM Minato~BSM Naruto) and didn't have senjutsu so Sasuke was just a better choice in that instance.

He was clearly conflicted throughout the fight.

KCM2 as in Naruto with the long cloak but without Kurama avatar?

 

[Baroxio]

Tobirama is quicker in combat speed but lacks the feats to suggest he can get through KCM cloak with mere punches and kicks.

Minato outlasts.

Canonically this.

 

[Avatar Twilight]

Not about what Fanverse does, it's about what the manga does. And yes, Minato used KCM before using BM.

Minato's eyes look normal here (ET aside).



Here, he has the Kurama eye slits (top left).

Naruto used KCM2 without the eye slits at times.

Fixed

If they're relative in speed KCM Minato still wins the taijutsu battle cause of KCM strength so whatever

So?

Minato could have made chakra arms and his Kurama avatar is completely unaffected by the missing arm.

His power gets nerfed from losing an arm as chakra's made of physical and mental energy, and physical energy comes from all the cells in your body, and the Kurama Avatar while mostly being Kurama's chakra is also contributed to by Minato's own power.

Not really

The most you can argue is that he had moments of indecision and doubt at times, but he wasn't that way throughout the fight. Dude cracked jokes and was even happy at times about his son.

Being out of it doesn't mean you're constantly going to be showing it. Someone can be depressed and still be happy at times.

Praises Naruto (and Sasuke) internally with a smile on his face.



Mentions the funny name of his jutsu, which Tobirama almost pokes fun at.

He wasn't saying it in a humorous way, that's just his jutsu's name. To him, that's the same as saying something like "I'll have to create an opening with Flying Raijin level 2 after all."

Acts with equal purpose and determination as Tobirama (unless you wanna argue he was mentally nerfed too).

Determination =/= good mental state

Also, pretty sure the Databook was referring to THIS moment (when Minato really was depressed and needed Kurama and Naruto to shake him out of his funk).

I think it just means Naruto shook him out of his whole funk that had lasted for the battle.

 

[Avatar Twilight]

KCM2 as in Naruto with the long cloak but without Kurama avatar?

Nah, both with and without the Avatar.

 

[Aegon Targaryen]

Naruto used KCM2 without the eye slits at times.

Interesting find

He's not using the Kurama avatar at the time. Maybe that's relevant somehow?

If they're relative in speed KCM Minato still wins the taijutsu battle cause of KCM strength so whatever

Don't disagree

His power gets nerfed from losing an arm as chakra's made of physical and mental energy, and physical energy comes from all the cells in your body, and the Kurama Avatar while mostly being Kurama's chakra is also contributed to by Minato's own power

Minato's own power is absolutely dwarfed by Kurama's, so any chakra deficit (or stat deficit) is gonna be very small.

Being out of it doesn't mean you're constantly going to be showing it. Someone can be depressed and still be happy at times

Okay, but you have no proof he was depressed at the time. A few flashes of regret do not depression make.

He wasn't saying it in a humorous way, that's just his jutsu's name. To him, that's the same as saying something like "I'll have to create an opening with Flying Raijin level 2 after all.

Saying it all is humorous, lmao

Determination =/= good mental state

I would say it's more proof for a good mental state than against, actually.

I think it just means Naruto shook him out of his whole funk that had lasted for the battle.

Baseless, as even DB4 never says it lasted for the battle.

 

[Yagami Uchiha]

Nah, both with and without the Avatar.

I don’t follow. I’ve always considered them like this:

KCM: Naruto with the yellow form that has magatama markings and no cloak.

BM: The long-cloak version.

 

[dergeist]

Chadrama slap diffs.

 

[Avatar Twilight]

Interesting find

He's not using the Kurama avatar at the time. Maybe that's relevant somehow?

Maybe, but he's had the slits plenty of times without the Avatar.

Don't disagree

nice

Minato's own power is absolutely dwarfed by Kurama's, so any chakra deficit (or stat deficit) is gonna be very small.

There's a pretty decent amount of evidence that KCM is more of a multiplier than a linear buff, so if for example Base Minato is 10 and KCM Minato is 400, then Base Minato going down to a 9 could make KCM Minato 360 or smthn.

Okay, but you have no proof he was depressed at the time. A few flashes of regret do not depression make.

Quite a few, in addition to his eyes having stressed lines around them quite a bit. Plus, there's evidence his ability to properly mould chakra was worse, as he often had to use a hand sign to use FTG, while normally he can do it without that.

Saying it all is humorous, lmao

I know, just saying Minato doesn't think it's silly so him saying it isn't a reflection of his mental state. Anyways, ppl often cope with their emotions using humour.

I would say it's more proof for a good mental state than against, actually.

I'm not saying it's proof against, just saying it doesn't prove he's in a good mental state.

Baseless, as even DB4 never says it lasted for the battle.

I know, but preponderance of evidence suggests that.

I don’t follow. I’ve always considered them like this:

KCM: Naruto with the yellow form that has magatama markings and no cloak.

BM: The long-cloak version.

I agree, what about what I said contradicts that?

 

[Yagami Uchiha]

Maybe, but he's had the slits plenty of times without the Avatar.

nice

There's a pretty decent amount of evidence that KCM is more of a multiplier than a linear buff, so if for example Base Minato is 10 and KCM Minato is 400, then Base Minato going down to a 9 could make KCM Minato 360 or smthn.

Quite a few, in addition to his eyes having stressed lines around them quite a bit. Plus, there's evidence his ability to properly mould chakra was worse, as he often had to use a hand sign to use FTG, while normally he can do it without that.

I know, just saying Minato doesn't think it's silly so him saying it isn't a reflection of his mental state. Anyways, ppl often cope with their emotions using humour.

I'm not saying it's proof against, just saying it doesn't prove he's in a good mental state.

I know, but preponderance of evidence suggests that.

I agree, what about what I said contradicts that?

Nothing, I’m just unsure what KCM2 is. For me, there’s KCM (1) and BM.

 

[Aegon Targaryen]

Nothing, I’m just unsure what KCM2 is. For me, there’s KCM (1) and BM.

KCM2 is what people call Naruto with the long chakra jacket but without the Kurama avatar. It's a fanfiction name, lol.

Maybe, but he's had the slits plenty of times without the Avatar

Interesting

nice

There's a pretty decent amount of evidence that KCM is more of a multiplier than a linear buff, so if for example Base Minato is 10 and KCM Minato is 400, then Base Minato going down to a 9 could make KCM Minato 360 or smthn

Disagree, fam. Relative fodder (Ino and Hinata) or chakra-fodder (Kakashi) gain far more amps from the Kurama cloaks than people who are already strong (Killer Bee) or already had lots of chakra (Sakura).

If the Kurama cloaks (which are basically weaker forms of what people call KCM2) gave multiplicative boosts as opposed to additive, Killer Bee should have been far more useful and powerful, yet he and post-Seal Sakura seemed untouched by the cloaks in terms of ability

Quite a few, in addition to his eyes having stressed lines around them quite a bit

Scan(s)? You sure you didn't confuse those with the Edo Tensei cracks?

Plus, there's evidence his ability to properly mould chakra was worse, as he often had to use a hand sign to use FTG, while normally he can do it without that.

I don't think the presence of handseals proves he was emotionally nerfed, lol.

If I'm not mistaken, all of the pages you have given me are those of Minato trying to teleport other people (not just himself), which could very well require a handseal for better control.

I know, just saying Minato doesn't think it's silly so him saying it isn't a reflection of his mental state. Anyways, ppl often cope with their emotions using humour

I get what you're saying, but the problem is none of this is really proof and the "proof" you have provided thus far doesn't really work either.

I'm not saying it's proof against, just saying it doesn't prove he's in a good mental state

I do believe it's proof against him being in a bad mental state, personally. Not saying it's definitive, but there's more proof against than for. So, there is that.

I know, but preponderance of evidence suggests that

Preponderance of evidence suggests that Minato was all business for the Obito fight (other than a brief moment of guilt before Obito became the JJ) until Juubito started insulting him.