Kakashi bloodlusted v.s. Gai 8 gates

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Kakashi: has MS and has 3 shots of it.
His speed = Sasuke's.

New addition to Kakashi:
Kakashi knows hiraishin and Susanoo.

Who wins?
 
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8 gates makes Lee pre time skip as strong as a Hokage so yea.... Gai would rapestomp.
This thread makes me lol
 
Yeah, I agree that a gated Gai could take Kakashi. I don't even know if he'd need 8 gates to do it.
 
Gai should be able to use gates, maybe start at 7. That way, if Kakashi decides to doton, he can power down and not hurt himself.

Going 8 gates is assured death and Kakashi can easily escape him.
 
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Gai should be able to use gates, maybe start at 7. That way, if Kakashi decides to doton, he can power down and not hurt himself.

Going 8 gates is assured death and Kakashi can easily escape him.
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He still only show 6, no proof he can use more.

I agree that Kakashi can take him + Gates are overhyped.
 
I think Kakashi could try and prevent Gai from opening the gates, if Gai gets them open there are not too many that could deal with it... this fight depends on situation and how they decide to fight each other
 
I don't see hachimon really having maximum effectiveness against Kakashi, and Eight Gates would be little more than Five in effectiveness. At some point it's less about whether Gai is far faster, and more about whether Gai can find Kakashi. Location is unspecified so I'm assuming the most general location, which usually in this series involves opportunities to hide – and Kakashi can travel underground.

This is very close, but if Gai is at all clever he will not be playing this with high levels of hachimon. He'll be using the first three Gates at most, and relying on his stamina and quickness. He might win by merit of stamina and ability to dodge attacks, and I doubt Mangekyō will be able to clinch this for Kakashi as Gai should know enough about it.

Narrowly to Kakashi.
 
8 gates is too much unless Kakashi can keep doing speed blitzs, which is not easy for someone who isn't accustomed to it and who isn't weapon expert like Sasuke.

Problem is, Gai has shown ability to stop gates after he is done. If Kakashi goes underground, Gai would just stop gates and go on search mission.

Kakashi looses in defense here. He doesn't have long range capabilities or have any defenses except sharingan to counter Gai's taijutsu/speed/power combo.

Gai takes this 75% of the time, assuming 8 gates doesn't equal death. but I doubt it would go that far.
 
Genius-24, Gai would indeed close the Gates if he realised that Kakashi was not around. Chances are Kakashi would leave something like a mizu bunshin, however, and Gai being Gai would throw some of his firepower at it. Problem is that after he opens the Gates, attacks futilely and closes them, he's probably used proportionately more of his chakra than Kakashi has of his.

Running around turning on and off a high number of Gates is a death sentence for Gai. Which is why the Gai I imagine isn't using more than three Gates, at least not until very late in the game – when he'd step up to no higher than five.
 
Kieuseru: to be fair, Gai would not open the shimon (Eighth Gate). He knows Kakashi and has fought him before, and probably knows how best to fight him. Gai can't win with that strategy, as you rightly see – but Gai sees it too.
 
Serenity said:
Genius-24, Gai would indeed close the Gates if he realised that Kakashi was not around. Chances are Kakashi would leave something like a mizu bunshin, however, and Gai being Gai would throw some of his firepower at it. Problem is that after he opens the Gates, attacks futilely and closes them, he's probably used proportionately more of his chakra than Kakashi has of his.

Running around turning on and off a high number of Gates is a death sentence for Gai. Which is why the Gai I imagine isn't using more than three Gates, at least not until very late in the game ? when he'd step up to no higher than five.
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I thought about that but u gotta understand that both of these shinobies should be very much aware of each other's abilities. I agree Gai falls short in intelligence but the problem is, once Gai finds Kakashi, Kakashi will have little going for him. b.c tunnels have doors. Gai can charge through it. With Gai's speed/taijutsu/power, he will just charge through the clones(MBs, KBs) and once he finds right Kakashi, he can just perform Asa Kujaku which Kakashi has little defense against.
If Right Kakashi is found, Kakashi can choose to do shunshin but Gai would do better(al beit with real speed not shunshin) and close the gap and perform asa kujaku which takes very few times.
even in these conditions, i see Kakashi running out of chakra faster then Gai.

...............................
This could have been much better if OP provided us with battleground.
 
Gai would take Kakashi down in 6 gates let alone 8, however it would probably end up in a tie because Gai would die.
 
You say "tunnels have doors", but Kakashi knows doton: dochu eigyō. He can phase his body through earth effortlessly, as he does when he performs doton: shinju zanshū (appears from underground to grab the target's leg). He doesn't tunnel. Doton: dochu eigyō is sick and pure taijutsu fighters like Gai have no reply to it.

And agreed on requiring a battleground here. Gai has a much better chance in the Sannin battlefield than in the Forest of Death.
 
Are you kidding?

Gai (Normal) vs. Kakashi (No Sharingan) = Draw (perhaps win for Kakashi)
Gai (Normal) vs. Kakashi (Sharingan) = Power Win for Kakashi
Gai (Normal) vs. Kakashi (Mangekyou Sharingan) = Kakashi Wins in a Second
Gai (1 Gate Open - x5 Power) = Kakashi Wins Easily
Gai (2 Gates Open - Great Power Increase) = Kakashi Wins
Gai (3 Gates Open - Another Great Power Increase) = Kakashi Wins Barely
Gai (4 Gates Open - Another Great Power Increase) = Draw (possible Kakashi win)
Gai (5 Gates Open - Another Great Power Increase) = Gai Wins Easily
Gai (5 Gates Open) vs. Kakashi (Mengekyou Sharingan + 1 Gate Open) = Gai Wins Barely
Gai (6 Gates Open) = Gai Wins Easily
Gai (7 Gates Open) = Gai Wins in One Second
Gai (8 Gates Open) = You even have to ask?

Kakashi can open one gate as we know. However, unless he can open five or six, Gai will obliterate him in a second. These are the effects of opening the gates (I read it somewhere at some point).

1. x5 Power Increase + x5 Stamina Increase

2. x10 Power Increase + Complete Body Regeneration (the person who activates it becomes ready to fight as if the fight had only just begun) + x10 Stamina Increase

3. x20 Power Increase + Body Information Travels Faster + x20 Stamina Increase

4. x50 Power Increase + Much More Oxygen + x50 Stamina Increase

5. x100 Power Increase + Releases Chakra Creation Cap + x100 Stamina Increase

6. x200 Power Increase + Removes Digestion Cap + x200 Stamina Increase

7. x500 Power Increase + Removes Speed Limit Cap + Removes All Waste Materials + x500 Stamina Increase

8. x1000 Power Increase + Uses All Energy In All Cells + x1000 Stamina Increase

Of course, the facts aren't confirmed, so don't rape me about them, but they are also meant to be MULTIPLIED TOGETHER to come up with full power. That means that Gai would be fighting Kakashi with 500,000,000,000,000 times his normal maximum power, plus no body caps, the same increase in stamina (therefore, theoretically, the same amount of time to fight), and a whole load of other awesome perks to help wipe out Kakashi (including complete regeneration to begin with). Kakashi at maximum power excluding one gate was only about 9 or 10 times stronger than Gai anyway. With three gates open, Gai would perform Reverse Lotus (which's attack power is apparently double that of the normal attack strength in 3 Gates Open, with each attack!), and Kakashi would even then have to open the First Gate to stop him.

Kakashi does have a chance, however; I would say he loses all hope at 7 Gates, but if Gai is in 8 Gates, then he will die quickly because all his cells are being broken down to provide chakra (including blood, organs and even skin). How quickly is not known. Presumably, if he could ascend to this form, Kakashi is pretty dead if Gai has the time before death to attack him. However, if Gai dies before he can fire an attack at Kakashi, then, of course, Kakashi wins. We don't know how long someone can survive after opening 8 Gates, so I can't really answer this.

Note: Please don't consider what's above my own information. I was told some of it, read some of it and observed some it, and then said it. Don't attack me upon the basis of something being badly wrong.

Yours sincerely,
GameGod
 
GameGod, the flaw I find in your reasoning is that you feel that increasing power and speed actually increases your chance against Kakashi without limit. Hachimon has a drawback proportional to the advantage it gives you, and not being presented with a real target perfectly counters any amount of power and speed.

If Gai tries any of the higher-level hachimon, Kakashi uses his fast hand seal speed while Gai opens the Gates to ensure that he won't be presenting a real target. He can leave clones, use genjutsu and travel underground: he has every tool he needs to make hachimon a bad move.

Just to note, your quantifications of the Gates benefit are fanfiction – they're not real values at all.

I see the fight going as follows, as you said:

Gai (3 Gates Open - Another Great Power Increase) = Kakashi Wins Barely

Gai won't go further, not because he's holding back, but because with any more Kakashi will change to a different plan and Gai will just hurt himself.
 
Ryuk, how do you rate Kakashi's chances of just leaving a mizu bunshin or kage bunshin, perhaps using a genjutsu, and hiding underground from Gai's hachimon? Gai does not, unfortunately, have any attack or technique that can counter Kakashi's doton: dochu eigyō (underground travel).
 
Serenity said:
You say "tunnels have doors", but Kakashi knows doton: dochu eigyō. He can phase his body through earth effortlessly, as he does when he performs doton: shinju zanshū (appears from underground to grab the target's leg). He doesn't tunnel. Doton: dochu eigyō is sick and pure taijutsu fighters like Gai have no reply to it.
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Dochu Eigyo was done by rain nins(oboro's team) where they were able to transfer body w.o exploiting ground as if they are transparent.

Kakashi created tunnel. and then used shinju zanshu. Similar to here.
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this is all considering, me being unaware of actual english translation of those japanese jutsu names.
 
Serenity said:
I don't see hachimon really having maximum effectiveness against Kakashi, and Eight Gates would be little more than Five in effectiveness. At some point it's less about whether Gai is far faster, and more about whether Gai can find Kakashi. Location is unspecified so I'm assuming the most general location, which usually in this series involves opportunities to hide ? and Kakashi can travel underground.

This is very close, but if Gai is at all clever he will not be playing this with high levels of hachimon. He'll be using the first three Gates at most, and relying on his stamina and quickness. He might win by merit of stamina and ability to dodge attacks, and I doubt Mangekyō will be able to clinch this for Kakashi as Gai should know enough about it.

Narrowly to Kakashi.
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But wouldn't using Kyōmon benefit Gai, since it removes the limit to how fast he can move and removes wastes from dead skin cells to feces, and gives his body a much cleaner system to work with, producing even more power and stamina.

Would going to Kyōmon lead to Gai's victory because I doubt the Sharingan will defend against that much.
 
Serenity said:
GameGod, the flaw I find in your reasoning is that you feel that increasing power and speed actually increases your chance against Kakashi without limit. Hachimon has a drawback proportional to the advantage it gives you, and not being presented with a real target perfectly counters any amount of power and speed.

If Gai tries any of the higher-level hachimon, Kakashi uses his fast hand seal speed while Gai opens the Gates to ensure that he won't be presenting a real target. He can leave clones, use genjutsu and travel underground: he has every tool he needs to make hachimon a bad move.

Just to note, your quantifications of the Gates benefit are fanfiction – they're not real values at all.

I see the fight going as follows, as you said:

Gai (3 Gates Open - Another Great Power Increase) = Kakashi Wins Barely

Gai won't go further, not because he's holding back, but because with any more Kakashi will change to a different plan and Gai will just hurt himself.
Click to expand...

I agree, but the fight begins with Gai at 8 Gates and Kakashi bloodlusted, so Kakashi does not have any extra time to prepare. His handseals will be nothing compared to the kind of speed that Gai would have at 8 Gates. The drawback of the 8 Gates is pain and soon death, and I agree that Gai cannot possibly survive simply because he will die of opening the 8 Gates. However, the drawback of the Gates does not actually hinder Gai in the battlefield on the outside, although it tears him apart on the inside.

I agree, however, that I didn't imagine that Kakashi would leave a clone or use Genjutsu. Gai's mind power would probably be too weak to withstand Kakashi's Genjutsu, because I do not think that the Gates provide extra Genjutsu resistance (although they do provide much more chakra, allowing for stronger Genjutsu itself; still, Gai would probably not use Genjutsu if it was the last thing he ever did). How silly of me. :amuse

However, before anyone coments, I'd like to point out that Kakashi's Earth Style (doton) jutsu would not work against someone as fast and powerful as Gai with the 8 Gates. His only hope would be to send some clones to fight and get as far away as possible as quickly as possible, and wait for Gai to die. There doesn't seem to be another way for it.

Yours sincerely,
Game Lord

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:
But wouldn't using Kyōmon benefit Gai, since it removes the limit to how fast he can move and removes wastes from dead skin cells to feces, and gives his body a much cleaner system to work with, producing even more power and stamina.

Would going to Kyōmon lead to Gai's victory because I doubt the Sharingan will defend against that much.
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Kakashi would not be stupid enough to go in front of 8 Gate-Powered Gai and fight him in a head on, close combat match. He would send clone, who would make more clones to attack Gai. He would hide either at a reasonably far distance unknown to Gai (Gai would be powerful, but it's not like he could blow up the entire Earth and therefore every one of Kakashi's hiding places with ease) or underground, and by the time Gai had found Kakashi, which may not even happen, Gai would be long gone.

Yours sincerely,
Game Lord
 
GameGod said:
Kakashi would not be stupid enough to go in front of 8 Gate-Powered Gai and fight him in a head on, close combat match. He would send clone, who would make more clones to attack Gai. He would hide either at a reasonably far distance unknown to Gai (Gai would be powerful, but it's not like he could blow up the entire Earth and therefore every one of Kakashi's hiding places with ease) or underground, and by the time Gai had found Kakashi, which may not even happen, Gai would be long gone.

Yours sincerely,
Game Lord
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I don't know if you realize this but Kyōmon is the 7th gate, and that removes his speed limit, and he could hit Kakashi so many times in a second, so I don't see Kakashi surviving unless he can open all the gates as well.
 
Genius-24 said:
Dochu Eigyo was done by rain nins(oboro's team) where they were able to transfer body w.o exploiting ground as if they are transparent.

Kakashi created tunnel. and then used shinju zanshu. Similar to here.
Click to expand...
My impression is that Kakashi can travel underground in the same manner as the Rain Trio used ? he breaks the surface of the earth as he returns. That said? I think you might have a point, and I'm not going to pretend otherwise. Even so, since we saw Yamato doing some tunnelling thing and covering his tracks, and this tunnelling seems to be obscenely fast, I don't fully agree with your conclusion.


Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:
But wouldn't using Kyōmon benefit Gai, since it removes the limit to how fast he can move and removes wastes from dead skin cells to feces, and gives his body a much cleaner system to work with, producing even more power and stamina.

Would going to Kyōmon lead to Gai's victory because I doubt the Sharingan will defend against that much.
Click to expand...
All the Gates have a negative side-effect on the user, so however many he opens it will be bad for him overall if he can't actually use it to win quickly. Kakashi's not the sort you need more force against to beat.

GameGod said:
I agree, but the fight begins with Gai at 8 Gates and Kakashi bloodlusted, so Kakashi does not have any extra time to prepare.
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I didn't interpret the fight that way, but rather as Gai having the option. I guess it's down to interpretation though. Starting distance and location is really key, but I think that with Kakashi's lightning fast hand seal speed he can make himself safe quickly. I really don't see the idea that Gai at Eight Gates is so fast that everyone else is just frozen.

At close enough range, and especially if Gai does start in shimon, then he'll beat Kakashi. I guess I've no idea who wins if I don't know the range and am not sure if Gai starts in shimon or just has access to it. As for genjutsu, I personally don't rate it too highly as Gai should have some idea how to deal with it ? but it may be a good distraction. Underground travel is important, I think, because once he's underground a metre or two Gai doesn't know the direction he's in, and even if as Genius suggested it's a form of tunnelling, he can cover up.

A distraction of some form followed by that could work, and genjutsu would be good for the distraction.
 
Serenity said:
GameGod, the flaw I find in your reasoning is that you feel that increasing power and speed actually increases your chance against Kakashi without limit. Hachimon has a drawback proportional to the advantage it gives you, and not being presented with a real target perfectly counters any amount of power and speed.

If Gai tries any of the higher-level hachimon, Kakashi uses his fast hand seal speed while Gai opens the Gates to ensure that he won't be presenting a real target. He can leave clones, use genjutsu and travel underground: he has every tool he needs to make hachimon a bad move.

Just to note, your quantifications of the Gates benefit are fanfiction ? they're not real values at all.

I see the fight going as follows, as you said:

Gai (3 Gates Open - Another Great Power Increase) = Kakashi Wins Barely

Gai won't go further, not because he's holding back, but because with any more Kakashi will change to a different plan and Gai will just hurt himself.
Click to expand...

Serenity, I see your points but Kishi tends to bend the rules when a character is going against a character with equal status. Of course Kakashi is tricky, uses subsitutions, Kage Bushins and can go underground but the last time those actually worked was on Sasuke, Naruto and Sakura back during the bell test.

Kakashi looked basically like a joke when up against people his own rank. His sharingan and team 7 was the only thing that saved him from getting pawned by Zabuza. Kakashi's tricks didnt work on him the first time around and Zabuza was suppose to be the type of character to be reckless.

Another example is Sasuke vs Deidara. By logic all Sasuke would have to do is use his incredible speed to instantly kill Deidara. Deidara has no sharingan to predict Sasuke's movements so how could he really properly defend himself? He couldnt he would be dead in seconds. But Kishi dosent right that way. In the Naruto world the higher the rank you are the more you can counter things that in reality would have killed you quickly.

The way kishi writes, Kakashi's ninjutsu, genjutsu, nindogs and his regular sharingan wouldnt be nearly enough to take down Gai. The fight would come down to gates and MS. Since Gai is already close to being kage level, 8 gates Gai would probably be to much for most of the AK members to handle. Only someone like Pein or Madara would have actually survive Gai's 8 gates rampage simply because of hype.
 
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