In your opinion, who is stronger? Deidara or Sasori?

J★J♥

Vento Aureo
He didn't say ''Oh drats! now that AND ONLY NOW THAT I only have one hand Sasori is stronger! If only it had been different! And my clay! Oh if only I had my clay I could say Sasori was weaker than meee!''

That's not what he said though. He didn't say Sasori being stronger than him was a conditional statement nor did he imply it.
He did not need to say that and that argument is retarded.
In context Kakashi decided to take on Deidara himself because he was the one who took down Kazekage and Deidara laughed it off with "sasori is stronger comment"
 

Ruthless Tsuchikage

Well-Known Member
He did not need to say that and that argument is retarded.
In context Kakashi decided to take on Deidara himself because he was the one who took down Kazekage and Deidara laughed it off with "sasori is stronger comment"
Of course he needed to say it. Remember Orochimaru and Hiruzen? There it was made abundantly clear that Hiruzen's age was the deciding factor in their power difference.

In context Deidara is quite arrogant and likely wouldn't degrade himself for the benefit of an organisation he doesn't even care for.


So he had screen time then (said fight was also one of the longest fights in the anime, probably the manga too)? Concession accepted.

Very limited screentime as we discussed. Between the two its very clear that Kishi favored using Deidara. Just look as them as edo zombies. Deidara was the favorite edo zombie of Kishi to use while Sasori didn't have his puppets, hardly did anything and instantly died when the war started.

Quite ironic, given you're accusing my JoJo guy of that very same thing
What's a jojo guy?

Also, to be technical, Deidara said Sasori is probably stronger than him. In other words, even he's not sure (which can imply the gap, if it exists or favor Sasori, is fairly small).
That's at best a bit of a stretch. Technical indeed.

But its indeed theoretically possible that Deidara surpassed Sasori later in the manga. However that would be at best a headcanon. Deidara rather tellingly doesn't gloat about any such thing during the zombie apocalypse.
 

J★J♥

Vento Aureo
Of course he needed to say it. Remember Orochimaru and Hiruzen? There it was made abundantly clear that Hiruzen's age was the deciding factor in their power difference.

In context Deidara is quite arrogant and likely wouldn't degrade himself for the benefit of an organisation he doesn't even care for.




Very limited screentime as we discussed. Between the two its very clear that Kishi favored using Deidara. Just look as them as edo zombies. Deidara was the favorite edo zombie of Kishi to use while Sasori didn't have his puppets, hardly did anything and instantly died when the war started.


What's a jojo guy?


That's at best a bit of a stretch. Technical indeed.

But its indeed theoretically possible that Deidara surpassed Sasori later in the manga. However that would be at best a headcanon. Deidara rather tellingly doesn't gloat about any such thing during the zombie apocalypse.
No he did not. Thats a dumb argument and it ends any conversation on the spot with sheer stupidity. Never use it.
 

Ruthless Tsuchikage

Well-Known Member
No he did not
Of course he did need to say it. If one character says another is stronger than he is then we shouldn't blindly assume that he was secretly saying that the other character was stronger than he is only because he had been weakened. If that's the message Kishi wanted us to take away from that statement he'd have explicitly made it clear that the statement was conditional.
 
First of all , Deidara conceded that Sasori is stronger than him.
Sure that was before he developed C4 Karura. Meaning with C1 , C2 and C3 , Sasori will still beat Deidara.

But C4 Karura is a non factor to Sasori since he is a puppet. Therefore Sasori is still the superior fighter.
I have them on the same tier regardless.
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
Very limited screentime as we discussed

Actually, you argued that it was "no screentime", which was a blatant lie.

You still have not responded to the fact it was a long on-panel fight that took place over multiple chapters (and if we wanna talk about screen time as in the anime, it was one of the longest fights in Naruto Shippuden). That's not "very limited" at all. It's not a lot, but it's plenty sufficient for speed and power scaling for Sasori and his foes.

I don't really see where you get off on calling that "very limited". Like, what's your basis of comparison?

Between the two its very clear that Kishi favored using Deidara. Just look as them as edo zombies. Deidara was the favorite edo zombie of Kishi to use while Sasori didn't have his puppets, hardly did anything and instantly died when the war started

The fuck? :confusedny

Deidara went down to the SAME enemies that took Sasori down - in the same fight - and never did anything of significance ever again before or after (other than upturning an Island Turtle with his bomb, but we already knew his explosives were crazy powerful). What are you even talking about? :mjlol

If Deidara was Kishimoto's favorite Edo zombie (literally goes down like a punk in his first actual fight to a bunch of mid tier fighters), I'd hate to see what his least favorite looks like :kobeha

What's a jojo guy?

The other guy you are responding to.

That's at best a bit of a stretch

Not at all.

It's the most reasonable conclusion.

But its indeed theoretically possible that Deidara surpassed Sasori later in the manga

Concession accepted.

However that would be at best a headcanon.

No, it would be logical, given that Deidara has superior feats and the Akatsuki itself mourns and praises Deidara in a way it never did for Sasori (at least on-panel).

In fact, the real headcanon is you thinking an outdated statement still applies in the first place. The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate it does.

Deidara rather tellingly doesn't gloat about any such thing during the zombie apocalypse.

He also doesn't admit inferiority to Sasori ever again, and literally mocks Sasori to his face at one point. Not gloating about being stronger =/ not being stronger.
 
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Ruthless Tsuchikage

Well-Known Member
Concession accepted.
You have a weird habit of saying that where its not warranted. I suggest you stop. Saying something might theoretically be true but there being nothing pointing towards it is not a ''concession''.

No, it would be logical, given that Deidara has superior feats and the Akatsuki itself mourns and praises Deidara in a way it never did for Sasori (at least on-panel).

In fact, the real headcanon is you thinking an outdated statement still applies in the first place. The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate it does.
Um...no. No it absolutely isn't. If a statement is made and never retracted then the burden of proof is on the side who's saying the statement isn't true. Feats aren't as relevant as you think they are when comparing characters with vastly different screentime.

He also doesn't admit inferiority to Sasori ever again
Ultimately irrelevant. Its in character for Deidara to make it clear that he has surpassed his master if that was the case.

I don't really see where you get off on calling that "very limited". Like, what's your basis of comparison?
His partner for instance? Sasori has one fight. Then he dies and does nothing as an edo zombie.
Deidara in contrast has his fight with Gaara, his skirmish with Kakashi and Naruto, his fight against Sasuke, turtle island.

Deidara went down to the SAME enemies that took Sasori down - in the same fight - and never did anything of significance ever again before or after (other than upturning an Island Turtle with his bomb, but we already knew his explosives were crazy powerful). What are you even talking
Remember that it was Deidara who got taken to turtle Island. Not Kakuzu, Nagato or Sasori. He also escaped getting trapped

Not at all.

It's the most reasonable conclusion.
No. The reasonable explanation is that Deidara was randomly saying that Sasori was stronger because that was the writer himself informing the audience of this fact.
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
You have a weird habit of saying that where its not warranted

It is warranted by the fact you are A) stepping back from your initial argument and B) failing to provide any evidence.

I suggest you stop

I suggest you exercise basic logic and reading comprehension.

Saying something might theoretically be true but there being nothing pointing towards it is not a ''concession''

That's not what I'm referring to, kiddo.

See? Reading comprehension.

Um...no. No it absolutely isn't. If a statement is made and never retracted
then the burden of proof is on the side who's saying the statement isn't true

I don't think you understand how burden of proof works.

Deidara's statement applies to his BOS self, that is undebatable. You don't need to prove that.

The problem is you are using a weaker version of Deidara admitting inferiority as proof a stronger version of him is also inferior, and for that you need proof that the statement still applies. So far, you have not presented any actual evidence, only ''b-but Deidara didn't say he's stronger!!!111!''.

Feats aren't as relevant as you think they are when comparing characters with vastly different screentime

Excuses. Sasori had enough screentime to showcase his abilities and their limits.

Besides, if we want to be technical, Sasori and Hebi arc Deidara have comparable (if not equal) screentime.

Ultimately irrelevant

Unfortunately, quite relevant.

Its in character for Deidara to make it clear that he has surpassed his master if that was the case

Not really. Deidara doesn't really have much of a motive to do so, he sees Sasori as a partner - not an enemy or rival like Itachi or Sasuke.

Only Deidara admitting inferiority to Sasori (or another reliable source saying so) is proof he is inferior to Sasori. Alternatively, feats.

Also, if you want to use that as evidence, I can point out that the Akatsuki praised and mourned Deidara specially (but not Sasori):

At the very least, nothing implies Deidara's previous statement still applies. In addition, Deidara has vastly better feats and portrayal - Pain uniquely praises him for his prowess, as does Kisame. Neither deigned to praise Kakuzu or Sasori on-panel, in contrast.

And you also failed to actually counter the feats I provided.

Sakura was able to react to Sasori's fastest attacks when she could not even perceive BOS Sasuke moving, a weaker Sasuke than the one Deidara reacted to and evaded.

His partner for instance? Sasori has one fight. Then he dies and does nothing as an edo zombie

Edo Sasori fought too, he just was nerfed. Still a fight though.

So Sasori had two fights (and an off-panel fight with Kankuro).

Deidara in contrast has his fight with Gaara

One fight.

his skirmish with Kakashi and Naruto

Not a fight, that was a chase and escape scenario.

If we wanna bring in encounters that are not fights, Sasori deflected an attack from Naruto.

his fight against Sasuke

Hebi arc Deidara, who is never stated to be inferior to Sasori.

turtle island

Not a fight.

Remember that it was Deidara who got taken to turtle Island. Not Kakuzu, Nagato or Sasori. He also escaped getting trapped

Because Deidara was the best choice lmao. He could fly and had an underwater bomb.

Actually, he got trapped and the Samurai stopped Hanzo from rescuing him. He escaped in the anime only IIRC.

No. The reasonable explanation is that Deidara was randomly saying that Sasori was stronger because that was the writer himself informing the audience of this fact.

The author didn't say Sasori was definitively stronger, only probably. Other translations cast even more doubt and say maybe instead.

I never denied Sasori > BOS Deidara, I just believe the statement (and feats) put them on the same overall tier.
 

Soljah

Super Ghost
Sasori for me still. Deidra is a brilliant fool sasori more straight to the point and he's a genius as well. Deidra problem is he overestimate his ability
 

Artist

Well-Known Member
Concession accepted.



Not at all. However, Iron Sand was not the jutsu Sasori hyped for being able to destroy a nation. That was Aka Higi.



:mjlol :kobeha :russ :gokuskully :facepalmed :camby :tiredpepe

You think this is nation level? :gokuskully



It's not even mountain level :kobeha

Granted, Vs Battles has him at large mountain level (far from nation level) in AP. Deidara? Large island level with C0. Even his C2 is above city level and his C3 is far higher than city level, though they do not place it anywhere definitively.



I did. It isn't even close to nation level (or village level, for that matter).



No, he does not.



Obviously.



Deidara said Sasori was stronger as a ninja, not stronger in terms of raw destructive potency or capacity. There's a difference.



But nothing Sasori has is remotely as destructive. Destruction isn't really his style, poison and traps are.
That wasn't a Concession. I know it was the 300 puppets which include the scorpion puppet and the Third Kazekage puppet. I wasn't talking about the Black Forest technique I was saying he could crash the objects into everything or just turn it into Black sand and flood the place which is why I brought up part 1 Gaara I'm saying Sasori can do the same thing on a larger scale giving that his stronger than part 1 Gaara. LOL Okay Sasori's one weird ass Machine Gun then. Dude what are you talking about that's not the statement I was referring to and you know that. except for the things that I named.
 
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Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
That wasn't a Concession

Twas.

I know it was the 300 puppets which include the scorpion puppet and the Third Kazekage puppet

Bullshit. Sasori said he destroyed a nation specifically with his Red Secret: Performance of a 100 Puppets Technique.

That's an entirely separate technique from the Third Kazekage puppet and Iron Sand.


Read the manga :camby

I wasn't talking about the Black Forest technique

Black Forest? It's not a cake :gokuskully

It's called Iron Sand World Order, and that's the biggest Iron Sand attack he's shown. It doesn't even come close to mountain level :lmao

I was saying he could crash the objects into everything or just turn it into Black sand and flood the place which is why I brought up part 1 Gaara I'm saying Sasori can do the same thing on a larger scale giving that his stronger than part 1 Gaara

Cool, that's not proof Sasori's nation level.

LOL Okay Sasori's one weird ass Machine Gun then

Concession accepted :vegetak

Dude what are you talking about

Something that should have been obvious to you, but clearly isn't. Deidara specializes in blowing stuff up and creating massive destruction, Sasori does not. Sasori specializes in killing people with more subtle methods like poisoned weapons.

that's not the statement I was referring to and you know that. except for the things that I named.

Then what were you referring to? :hm

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Least fav would stay buried never to be revived or seen again in canon.

Which wasn't Sasori, so Ruthless Tsuchikage is wrong :kanyeshrug
 

Artist

Well-Known Member
Twas.



Bullshit. Sasori said he destroyed a nation specifically with his Red Secret: Performance of a 100 Puppets Technique.

That's an entirely separate technique from the Third Kazekage puppet and Iron Sand.


Read the manga :camby



Black Forest? It's not a cake :gokuskully

It's called Iron Sand World Order, and that's the biggest Iron Sand attack he's shown. It doesn't even come close to mountain level :lmao



Cool, that's not proof Sasori's nation level.



Concession accepted :vegetak



Something that should have been obvious to you, but clearly isn't. Deidara specializes in blowing stuff up and creating massive destruction, Sasori does not. Sasori specializes in killing people with more subtle methods like poisoned weapons.



Then what were you referring to? :hm

I don't think you know what you're talking about.



Which wasn't Sasori, so Ruthless Tsuchikage is wrong :kanyeshrug
Not Christmas anymore bitch drop the Twas. He could've been talking about his entire puppet collection but if you say so. who said I didn't? :confusednyCake? What the hell are you talking about? I never said anything about cake. I already know that I said it before.

Who was it then?
 
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