• CC
    PotW is back with a special edition Happy Holidays!
    ~Deadline to enter is Monday, December the 19th at 9 PM UTC.

FKT Hitsugaya vs HM Nnoitra

Who wins?


  • Total voters
    11

TrueTrueTrue

Well-Known Member
His ice can't hold him, and without Tenso Jurin he can't do 100 Flower Burial, so he has no way of beating Nnoitra. Nnoitra will break through the ice and beat him to death over time. Worst case scenario is Hitsugaya says fuck it and lets his Bankai go out of control by letting all the petals dying via stalling and takes out Nnoitra Megumi/Mahoraga-style.
 

Heaven or Hell

Well-Known Member
His ice can't hold him, and without Tenso Jurin he can't do 100 Flower Burial, so he has no way of beating Nnoitra. Nnoitra will break through the ice and beat him to death over time. Worst case scenario is Hitsugaya says fuck it and lets his Bankai go out of control by letting all the petals dying via stalling and takes out Nnoitra Megumi/Mahoraga-style.
Without Tenso Jurin, it just takes a lot longer to use Hyoten Hyakkaso.
 

Vasto Lorde King

Leader of We Dem Boys!
Base Ulquiorra stomps him.

edit: wait noitora? What the fuck is toshiro gonna do against noitora without HH? toshiro runs out of petals and is forced to end his bankai as the result otherwise would lead to an fucked up growth damaging toshiro. I bet @Xelioszzapporro could even make an argument for base noitora tanking toshiro's bankai ice+minus HH. :kobeha
 

Corax

Well-Known Member
Toshiro. FKT Ken and Toshiro are comparable characters. Also his iron skin doesn't make Nnoitora immune to freezing and hypothermia. It is like to say that medieval knights were immune to cold because of thick armor.
 

docj

i have returned
I will say this again

Hierro is only a problem to people who lack reiatsu control
 

Matador

Well-Known Member
He’s right, captains seldom had issues with piercing Espada’s hierro. Toshiro can likely cut Nnoitra with his blade, but actually fighting him in CQC is a bad idea

If he can get a Ryuusenka off and blow him up from the inside he has a chance, but that has to be a last resort
 

Sablés

Well-Known Member
I was going to let you guys go, but N (no need to tag, I know you'll read this) was talking bs in the Byakuya thread.

Hierro is only a problem to people who lack reiatsu control
Pretty much can't be proven.
He’s right, captains seldom had issues with piercing Espada’s hierro.
Different levels of hierro and different strength in captains.
There is no relative point here. Reiatsu control helps but it doesn't magically give you a better chance to succeed than those who lack it.
 

Matador

Well-Known Member
Different levels of hierro and different strength in captains.
Uh, I don’t think “everyone is built different” is a good argument hierro being virtually ineffective against Captains throughout the manga, especially when Toshiro is one of the stronger Juniors :pepethink


I was going to let you guys go, but N (no need to tag, I know you'll read this) was talking bs in the Byakuya thread.

You’re one to talk you fraud:camby

Volume =\= power in ice or Shikai Toshiro can casually toss out stronger HH’s in Shikai. Pick a side so I can screenshot it and use it against you :camby
 

monkeybananas

Well-Known Member
I forgot that tengumaru didn’t put a scratch on stark, considering the density of the spike array in the thing if love could cut stark he would have.
 

Matador

Well-Known Member
Tell that to Love, Ichigo, and Zaraki

Zaraki went from tickling Nnoitra to cutting clean through him the second he started controlling his Reiatsu better, that’s one of the worst examples you can use actually :lmao

Tengumaru is blunt force, not penetrating and Ichigo is trash


Which is ironic given he failed to dent Halibel. :pepethink

His ice doesn’t cause physical damage so it makes sense. Even Cang Du who was said to be effectively dead inside Flower Cross was unscathed before and after
 

Sablés

Well-Known Member
Zaraki went from tickling Nnoitra to cutting clean through him the second he started controlling his Reiatsu better
Citation? :pepethink
Tengumaru is blunt force
Do you think blunt force doesn't incur visible damage or something?
not penetrating
It has spikes.
and Ichigo is trash
Tell that to all the guys he had no problem cutting, including the ones who had hierro.
His ice doesn’t cause physical damage so it makes sense.
Nah. There is flat out no evidence of Halibel sustaining any form of injury from Hitsugaya. Including supposed killshot techniques.
That's just Halibel. Shall I also remind you of the legendary 10th Espada who no-sold Hyorinmaru and demanded bankai to defeat :lmao
 

Matador

Well-Known Member
Citation? :pepethink
The manga :)

Do you think blunt force doesn't incur visible damage or something?

That’s not my argument, I explicitly said penetrating

It’s easier to stab into tough surfaces than beating it with blunt

It has spikes.

Proof they made contact with him?

Nah. There is flat out no evidence of Halibel sustaining any form of injury from Hitsugaya. Including supposed killshot techniques.

Weirdest straw man yet :kermitthink

Toshiro isn’t Byakuya or Zaraki. You either die by his ice or break out, there’s zero in between. Halibel not sustaining injury isn’t a gotcha moment, that’s just how his kit works

I have you a direct example in Cang Du which you ignored, but I’ll do you one better: Luppi was on the verge of death and he wasn’t bleeding or anything :lmao
 

Sablés

Well-Known Member
The manga :)
Show me the line.
That’s not my argument, I explicitly said penetrating
What makes you think there is a difference? Is hierro somehow more/less resistant to penetration or something?
Proof they made contact with him?


Highly improbable that they could have missed given Stark's Size.

Toshiro isn’t Byakuya or Zaraki. You either die by his ice or break out, there’s zero in between. Halibel not sustaining injury isn’t a gotcha moment, that’s just how his kit works. We have a very explicit example in Cang Du
Characters can sustain damage from Hitsugaya's ice even if they don't die. So uh Halibel being fine from an attack that's supposed to kill her is very bad for you. :kermitthink

I’ll do you one better, Luppi was on the verge of death and he wasn’t bleeding or anything :lmao
Luppi was bandaged, frozen, and shown to be back in base, which is the cue for him being significantly injured.

I see that you ignored Hitsugaya admitting that he couldn't beat Yammy without bankai. So I suppose his shikai is just worthless and not even at the standards of a captain? :pepethink
 

Matador

Well-Known Member
Show me the line.

It’s in Kubo’s serialized manga, Bleach

I’m also on mobile

What makes you think there is a difference? Is hierro somehow more/less resistant to penetration or something?

Hierro is described to be akin to something like iron. It’s easier to knick with sharp objects than destroy with raw blunt force




Highly improbable that they could have missed given Stark's Size.

Are we looking at the same image? It’s very much probable

Characters can sustain damage from Hitsugaya's ice even if they don't die.

Show me scans

Lipping was bandaged, frozen, and shown to be back in base, which is the cue for him being significantly injured.

He was bandaged when he got back to Hueco Mundo for treatment. Straight out of Sennen Hyoro he was physically uninjured, only having ice specs on him. No wounds, no blood because that’s not how ice works

We know he was nearly killed because he dropped to Base, but he doesn’t physically look any different than Halibel did when she broke out of HS with Tiberon

I see that you ignored Hitsugaya admitting that he couldn't beat Yammy without bankai. So I suppose his shikai is just worthless and not even at the standards of a captain? :pepethink
Why would I bother with a blatant strawman? :pepethink
 

Matador

Well-Known Member
It is telling that Sennen Hyoro, his only attack that’s specifically designed to physically crush its target didn’t even make Luppi bleed a drop of blood despite us knowing it nearly killed him :lmao
 

Sablés

Well-Known Member
I’m also on mobile
Lead with that lmao.
Kenpachi never mentions anything about reiatsu control. Rather uh, bringing that up with him of all people is, for obvious reasons, really freaking silly. Why do you think he wears the eyepatch? :catdude
Hierro is described to be akin to something like iron. It’s easier to knick with sharp objects than destroy with raw blunt force
Which just translates to "durable", not that they have actual properties of iron.
They're beating up and burned by fists or energy attacks like everyone else.
Show me scans
Literally Luppi.
Izuru as well.
Both of them had clear tells that they were defeated, without them actually dying.
But he doesn’t physically look any different
Only Halibel doesn't just look no different. She is not impaired in the slightest :lmao
Why would I bother with a blatant strawman? :pepethink
Is this a refusal to answer or did you lose track of the argument.

Buddy, this started with docj saying that hierro can be overcome easily, and you agreed. He never mentioned the means. Hitsugaya claims he cannot defeat Yammy in shikai after Yammy no-sells him. So, uh, clearly hierro matters a lot. If you're going to say "it's just about piercing and that's super speshul" or something, then I'm afraid YOU are the one derailing this thread. If Hitsugaya can't beat even phase the likes of Yammy, then clearly hierro matters a lot.
 

docj

i have returned
Kenpachi never mentions anything about reiatsu control.
Kenpachi is an absolute dumbass. His non-mention of what’s actually occurring is not disproof of the event.
.

Buddy, this started with docj saying that hierro can be overcome easily, and you agreed.
Don’t misquote me :ufdup

I said hierro can be overcome with proper reiatsu control. Barring a select few most captain class possess this trait as evidenced multiple times in the manga
He never mentioned the means. Hitsugaya claims he cannot defeat Yammy in shikai after Yammy no-sells him. So, uh, clearly hierro matters a lot. If you're going to say "it's just about piercing and that's super speshul" or something, then I'm afraid YOU are the one derailing this thread. If Hitsugaya can't beat even phase the likes of Yammy, then clearly hierro matters a lot.
Hitsugaya’s Shikai is irrelevant here. Hitsugaya went from not being able to beat Yammy to dropping the 6th and 3rd in bankai. Bankai is not restricted. Bankai Hitsugaya takes an ice cold shit on Nnorita. End debate
 
Last edited:

Matador

Well-Known Member
Literally Luppi.
Izuru as well.
Both of them had clear tells that they were defeated, without them actually dying.

Yeah we knew Kira was defeated because he was screaming on the ground while his ice was slowly creeping up his body not because of any physical injuries :lmao

Re-read what you said since you apparently forgot: sustained damage. Kira sustains no physical damage, his body is simply frozen and he can’t break out. Luppi had no external damage even when SH outright crushed him, just ice fragments which even Halibel had on her from a far weaker attack

Only Halibel doesn't just look no different. She is not impaired in the slightest :lmao
Neither did Cang Du who again, who was explicitly said to be effectively killed by Flower Cross. What aren’t you getting here? It doesn’t matter if they don’t “look” different :confusedny

Buddy, this started with docj saying that hierro can be overcome easily, and you agreed.

He said it can be overcome with proper Reiatsu control, with the context clearly being about the Zaraki vs Nnoitra fight, e.g. cutting not freezing which has entirely different properties which makes that a blatant strawman. I figured docj made that clear enough, and I definitely made it very explicit in my initial post

You’re the one extrapolating that Docj is saying hierro is useless in general :blobshrug
 
Top Bottom