Girl I don't care
Active Member
Does great poets of the past and their works still have relevance today, discuss, explain your point of view provide some necessary examples
Does past great poets still have relevance today?
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Dream Brother
Well-Known Member
One of the key things that I feel defines a ‘great’ poet -- or any sort of artist, for that matter -- is that their works possess a timeless quality. Going by this, then, every ‘great’ (subjective and relative to the individual, of course) poet from the past certainly has relevance today. Why? Because they mostly deal in the universal aspects of the human condition -- the loss of love, the need for love, jealousy, hate, and philosophical questions such as ‘why are we here?’, ‘how should a human live his life?’, the list goes on.
The emphasis is on the emotions and the kind of questions that have plagued humans for centuries. We see it perhaps most famously in Shakespeare (issue of love heavily stressed in plays such as Romeo and Juliet, or issues of ponderings on existence or human nature itself seen in a work like Hamlet). You see people like Keats engaging with the question of what ‘beauty’ actually is (eg, Ode to a Grecian Urn) or the connection between art and elevating nature to a divine level (eg, Ode to a Nightingale). You have Wordsworth trying to address the ‘sublime’ in his poetry (or even just define it) or Byron opting for biting satire on human folly itself. You have Herrick delving into the fleeting nature (or glory) of life, or Yeats exploring the horrible decay of old age or the both invigorating and yet scary nature of true love. We arguably see Milton probing the power of rebellion within us with his depiction of Satan in Paradise Lost, or Chaucer weaving tales that speak of amazingly knotty relationship matters that we still experience today, or questions of morality that have never been completely answered for certain, all seen in his Canterbury Tales. There’s Poe and his addressing of the dark/macabre side of human nature/existence, or Rumi and his engagement with a mysticism that has nearly always fascinated many people. I can go on and on, there are honestly far too many to name or discuss here.
To break it all down, my answer to this thread is ‘yes’.
The emphasis is on the emotions and the kind of questions that have plagued humans for centuries. We see it perhaps most famously in Shakespeare (issue of love heavily stressed in plays such as Romeo and Juliet, or issues of ponderings on existence or human nature itself seen in a work like Hamlet). You see people like Keats engaging with the question of what ‘beauty’ actually is (eg, Ode to a Grecian Urn) or the connection between art and elevating nature to a divine level (eg, Ode to a Nightingale). You have Wordsworth trying to address the ‘sublime’ in his poetry (or even just define it) or Byron opting for biting satire on human folly itself. You have Herrick delving into the fleeting nature (or glory) of life, or Yeats exploring the horrible decay of old age or the both invigorating and yet scary nature of true love. We arguably see Milton probing the power of rebellion within us with his depiction of Satan in Paradise Lost, or Chaucer weaving tales that speak of amazingly knotty relationship matters that we still experience today, or questions of morality that have never been completely answered for certain, all seen in his Canterbury Tales. There’s Poe and his addressing of the dark/macabre side of human nature/existence, or Rumi and his engagement with a mysticism that has nearly always fascinated many people. I can go on and on, there are honestly far too many to name or discuss here.
To break it all down, my answer to this thread is ‘yes’.
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Destined Hokage
Banned
Uh...What?
Girl I don't care
Active Member
i do find edgar allen poes poems to be interseting and somewhat inspiring in a different way
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Fran
I'm with <b><font color="#000080">Bruce</font></b>
Where's the grammar police?
Ignoring the mistakes [and the abundancy of redbars inthis thread
] the answer, paraphrased is yes.
I'm a staunch believer of Poetry being 'Didactic'
But that's a different issue.
Like Dream said, poetry [that is, poetic poetry] is a general exploration of humanity. It will bear perpetual relevance.
Ignoring the mistakes [and the abundancy of redbars inthis thread
] the answer, paraphrased is yes.I'm a staunch believer of Poetry being 'Didactic'
But that's a different issue. Like Dream said, poetry [that is, poetic poetry] is a general exploration of humanity. It will bear perpetual relevance.
Batman
M.I.S.
Shoot. I can still sit down and read Dante like it's Harry Potter. Langston Hughes, Edgar Allen Poe, Maya Angelou. It's like Dream brother said, until the questions about the human condition can be answered, people will always look to the past for reference. So their relevance is obvious.
Mystique inactive
Banned
Yes, in a small way. They aren't exactly the role models for the poets of today, but they do play some importance in today's society.
AmatorPlatonisCatullique
Member
They aren't the role models, but they should be; certainly they're a great deal wiser than modern poets seem to be. I don't see much hope for a poetic Renaissance, though. Our culture no longer values beauty or wisdom, and great poetry doesn't provide the "useful" knowledge or effortless amusement that so many people seek.
Dream Brother
Well-Known Member
This is debatable, I feel.
Perhaps these things are still valued, but through different, perhaps less sophisticated mediums, due to the growth of technology and the way in which entertainment has evolved since the ?Golden Age? of literature?
AmatorPlatonisCatullique
Member
Perhaps some people are simply looking for it in different places, but most are not. If we as a culture seek out beauty at all, it is always an easily-approached, bite-sized sort of beauty. Our music industry rewards short, pithy songs that deal with a single event or emotion, and our literary critics laud writers for individual sentences rather than for true insight into the human condition. In effect, we have allowed the mindset of "modernization" to range out of control, and our culture suffers from the delusion that the old things cannot possibly be as relevant and useful as the new.
But the designation "classic" is not an empty label. Those books and poems that have made it down to us through the ages have been preserved for a reason: their power was such that many generations thought them worth preserving. They are not only still relevant; they are practically prophetic. Shakespeare knows us far better than we know ourselves.
Khamzul
Read over there ->
I strongly disagree. Although "our culture" is a wide term in this context.
Tyrael
I prefer the term Dream Weaver
"Modernisation"? (yes i am stubbornly British)
Oh dear.
The problem with such statements are that they presume a hell of a lot about the past. Does anyone need reminding that many of the greats only gained the status of such in hindsight. It is the modern world that has proclaimed them as 'great' and as such they only hold any value as 'great' in this modern world.
The past is often glorified due to the fact that, inevitably, pieces of lit./poetry/paintings that are not good do not survive and thus we are only left with the most brilliant example to look upon. So the past seems a vast pool of cultural magnificence next to the depravity of this brave new world. (Hence why I would also deny the existence of a ‘Golden Age’ of lit.)
Also it should be mentioned that literacy levels in western society (which is what we are talking about) are rising. How can it be redundant when it actually has an ability to impact more people?
Society is a useful scapegoat, and there is something to say about the trends towards gratification, but overall it cannot be argued to be the death poetry or meaning.
AmatorPlatonisCatullique
Member
My apologies; going back and reading my post, I didn't make my main point clear. It's quite true that we have only gotten the very best that has survived from the past, and there is no doubt that the vast majority of, say, Victorian literature was utter rubbish. But we hold a very different attitude toward the past than our immediate cultural predecessors did. Even during the first half of the 20th century, it was expected that anyone professing to be educated would have been well-acquainted with all the great authors, as well as with mathematics and the sciences. The study of great literature was seen as something to be pursued if one had the opportunity; the problem, of course, was that so few people did. Now the opportunity is open to many more people, but the great books are sorely neglected. When it is possible for a person to go through four years of undergraduate education and not touch a single play by Shakespeare or a lyric poem by Tennyson, then something has gone horribly wrong with our idea of education.
Tyrael
I prefer the term Dream Weaver
Don't apologies, I'm just being pedantic.
Academia is far more accessible and no-doubt this has caused a watering-down of the, at least in perception, of what an educated person is. But this in no way invalidates the importance of literature or any other art. If anything appreciation and accessibility are up and we are as strongly cultured as we ever were, even if our culture is somewhat diluted as a result of the aforementioned.
You also can't be as general as just reading. I know a few people who believe just reading Harry Potter is as bad as not reading at all.
Essentially I think that the study of great literature has and always will be a bit of an underground (or overground) thing and will be until we are swallowed by the sun/nuked/ice aged/insert alternative apocalypse here.
neko-sennin
AKA shadesmaclean
I think Dream Brother nailed down most of strongest points about "relevance" in this modern age. The only other thing I'll add on that note is that, just as there are things that strike a certain chord with the population at large, there are also those whose words hold personal revelations and epiphanies for individuals on a more idiosyncratic level.
...Though in past ages of much heavier censorship and religio-political control and patronage of the arts, it also makes one wonder what wonders were burned or destroyed before more than a handful of eyes ever got to behold them.
Another point. Even looking at the past, one would almost have to be a visionary to tell for sure what works from our own lifetime will be considered "classics" in some future age. Many geniuses were maligned or ignored in their own day, such that just because something is the Flavor of the Month in the Oprah Book Club right now, doesn't mean anyone will necessarily care about it centuries from now. Conversely, some future classics may be floating around in obscurity here in Cyberspace just because the person who wrote them couldn't find anyone to publish it in their lifetime.
...Though in past ages of much heavier censorship and religio-political control and patronage of the arts, it also makes one wonder what wonders were burned or destroyed before more than a handful of eyes ever got to behold them.
Another point. Even looking at the past, one would almost have to be a visionary to tell for sure what works from our own lifetime will be considered "classics" in some future age. Many geniuses were maligned or ignored in their own day, such that just because something is the Flavor of the Month in the Oprah Book Club right now, doesn't mean anyone will necessarily care about it centuries from now. Conversely, some future classics may be floating around in obscurity here in Cyberspace just because the person who wrote them couldn't find anyone to publish it in their lifetime.
Genive
is out of time
I like to agree with Dream Brother, because it saves me a lot of typing.
Great poetry, as defined by the most amazing textbook concerning poetry, "Sound and Sense" (which if you've not yet encountered, kill your English teacher forthwith) is something that will contain both timeless relevance and meaning. Really, in a sense, these virgins are making much of time.
A simple poem then, like "The Road not Taken" by Frost (which is by no means "simple"), will always mean something, and will always have something teach, to mull about as you grow. Because great poetry grows with you as well.
Things rise, things fall, and You, Andrew Marvell...
If you caught anything more in my response, then you deserve reps
Great poetry, as defined by the most amazing textbook concerning poetry, "Sound and Sense" (which if you've not yet encountered, kill your English teacher forthwith) is something that will contain both timeless relevance and meaning. Really, in a sense, these virgins are making much of time.
A simple poem then, like "The Road not Taken" by Frost (which is by no means "simple"), will always mean something, and will always have something teach, to mull about as you grow. Because great poetry grows with you as well.
Things rise, things fall, and You, Andrew Marvell...
If you caught anything more in my response, then you deserve reps