Do the Gorosei kill the hype...?

Do they?


  • Total voters
    32
Basically poor reading comprehension sAdmiral simp finally starting to understand the plot.

I'm glad after all the years of ignoring Cipher Pol and Admiral atrocities, the Gorosei finally made you realize the irony of the clean & orderly looking suit wearers being disgusting people in a manga about rowdy good guy pirates, welcome to One Piece.
The irony of someone calling me an Admiral Simp when I made 2 entire threads roasting Greenbull and Kizaru.

The irony of you saying poor reading comprehension when you clearly didn't get my point at all. I have no issue with there being characters on the WG's side who happen to be above Admirals. My issue is in the way it was written. It doesn't make any sense.

At no point was I suggesting the Gorosei were nice people and not evil. They ordered the genocide of a group of unarmed scholars and censor history to stay in power. Again...totally missed the point of the thread.

You might want to think before replying.
 
the total opposite of the way the gorosei has been operating in other chapters
The moment in Wano where it’s revealed the Gorosei knew about the Nika fruit and just let Luffy ran rampant was the when it became clear they are just as stupid as any other villain group

That’s when it should have been clear that they are just like a more powerful Big mom pirates or something
 
Where is the cartoonishly evil portrayal exactly ? We still see them treat important people with respect. I mean, while Saturn considers lowly humans as insects , he still treats Kizaru with respect , listening to him and even allowing him to act according to his own will. Heck, he didn’t even badmouth him when he lost to Luffy. Same with Vegapunk. Saturn says that it is a shame that the situation turned out like this and even thanks him for all the services he’s done. They still call out Imu on Lulusia having many citizens. I don’t see something cartoonish here. I mean, it’s pretty evident that they wouldn’t kill Cobra either if it wasn’t for Imu appearing. They listened to him and tried to reply to every question that he brought up.
-Wasting time showing off your powers is cartoonishly evil (letting Bonnie stab him just so he can talk trash and squeeze her).

-Wasting time chewing out Kizaru when he's supposedly in a hurry to kill Vegapunk (not sure if you saw the panel where he says it took him way too long and was disappointed).

-Killing henchmen and then blaming them for getting in his way.

-Looking down on everyone calling them inferior insects...

Maybe it's just saturn whose the overzealous type.
 
The moment in Wano where it’s revealed the Gorosei knew about the Nika fruit and just let Luffy ran rampant was the when it became clear they are just as stupid as any other villain group

That’s when it should have been clear that they are just like a more powerful Big mom pirates or something
Yeah this is the worst example of all of them. It was mind-numbingly stupid that they let Luffy cause so much trouble. I mean even if they didn't know about the Nika fruit, Luffy was still the son of Dragon, a D clan member, and had Robin (who can read poneglyphs) on his crew. He openly attacked a government facility and broke dangerous level 6 inmates out of prison. Those factors alone should've had them tracking down the Strawhats 24/7 to eliminate them.
 
The moment a villain kills their own subordinates for no reason, they’ve crossed into cartoonish territory
People were actually blaming the Marine soldier for not looking away when he saw a GIANT OCCULT SYMBOL APPEAR AND SUMMON A HUGE DEMON. :lmao
 
I tend to agree with this assessment. After the Sabo's skirmish with the Gorosei but before Saturn's arrival on Egghead, a lot of us assumed that when word got out that the elders were literally monsters that many of the Marines would defect/someone (Akainu) might stage a coup, but once Saturn revealed his true form it seemed like all those theories were tossed. The issue isn't the fact that the elders are monsters but rather the fact that they seemingly don't care if everyone knows it. So why present themselves as somewhat-levelheaded political types in the first place?
 
The irony of someone calling me an Admiral Simp when I made 2 entire threads roasting Greenbull and Kizaru.

The irony of you saying poor reading comprehension when you clearly didn't get my point at all. I have no issue with there being characters on the WG's side who happen to be above Admirals. My issue is in the way it was written. It doesn't make any sense.

At no point was I suggesting the Gorosei were nice people and not evil. They ordered the genocide of a group of unarmed scholars and censor history to stay in power. Again...totally missed the point of the thread.

You might want to think before replying.
No simpin?🤔
To make matters worse, it's now a serious debate whether or not the gorosei are >/= the admirals which would be both shocking and disappointing if true (imo). The admirals are supposed to be THE greatest military assets of the Marines and the Marine equivalent of yonko. The admirals are also WAY more charismatic and interesting as characters than the gorosei as they all have their own brand of justice and have more developed personalities. They have cooler designs and it seemed as if Akainu was potentially being set up as an EOS villain on the Marine side for Luffy similar to Blackbeard odr the pirates side. If the gorosei are above the admirals, that would logically suggest Imu is above them as well. Which means Imu>>>Gorosei>Admirals and that means Luffy is going to have to get anywhere from 2-5x stronger to stand a chance against Imu. That would be pretty stupid and would either require the story to drag out even longer or it would require Luffy to get more asspull, unearned power ups to keep up.

Tl;dr:

The question is: Does the fairly bland, cartoonishly evil portrayal of the gorosei kill the hype of the story? Is that fitting for final villain material when we've had so many MUCH more interesting and charismatic villains such as Crocodile, Doflamingo, etc...? Does the Gorosei potentially being above the admirals ruin the power scaling and drag the story out unnecessarily killing the momentum?
That sure sounded like a lotta simpin and you being butthurt cuz the Gorosei > Admirals and it somehow caught you off guard...

Meanwhile I'm out here in 2014 spittin facts such as
I think the reason people overestimate the admirals is that people don't understand power progression. Akainu is not going to be the FV. And Yonko level is not even gonna be the final power tier lmao.

The Yonkos are like the Hokages. The Admirals are like the other Kages. The Yonko commanders are like Akatsuki. Old WB is like old Sarutobi.


The Supernovas & the next gen is REALLY getting slept on by a lot of folks.

Don't be shocked when the Gorosei are revealed to be Juubi level opponents.

The final power levels for Luffy & them is gonna be just like how Naruto was leagues beyond his older incarnations. Sabo already came back like Tobi & was scrapin with Admirals. Don't be shocked when the admirals are not even stronger than Coby, Usopp & Helmeppo

All I see is that some members of the community in this forum like to circle jerk itself back to denial when they are hit with the facts of Yonkos being stronger than admirals.

Admirals are strong.
Strongest Marine UNIT
Gorosei is probably strongest WG UNIT


Yonko are the Strongest PIRATE UNIT
There's only 4 because they represent owning a corner of the earth.
Think of the dragon, tiger, turtle & pheonix of eastern lore.

PK can probably handle Yonkos the same way Yonkos can handle Admirals which is most likely the way Admirals handle Yonko Commanders.

I feel at least being equal to 2 if a lesser level & getting edged out by 3 is extremely reasonable in regards to powerscaling and balance.

For example. Marines Collective might be equal to 2 Yonko, but lose to 3.

I think PK will be the only one able to actually > 3:1 the Admirals.

I can't people try to downplay getting stabbed through the chest & getting a heart attack after being so sick that you need constant IVs. Not only that, but WB was old already.

I will say this. Ace was what limited Whitebeard the most. Had Ace not been the objective, WB would have just Quaked the island into the ocean and NOBODY would have been able to stop him, not 1 Admiral, not 5 of them, not the entire fuckin island seeing how many of those ppl had DFs they woulda been fucked once the island sank.

Shanks literally swaggered up, blocked an admiral who is known for ruthless bloodthirstyness with no consequences, challenged all hostile parties, claimed the WGs war trophies and forced a ceasefire with his presence alone. Even Minato who had a flee on sight order would still meet resistance. Think about that.

Yonko are portrayed as the top of the top. The ones so strong that they bar themselves from advancing despite being so powerful. They are like magnets repelling and stabilizing each other.


Gorosei > Admirals was VERY OBVIOUS and HAS BEEN FOR A DECADE. Ya'll just ran outta room for excuses and now have to face the truth.
 
Yes. And you're a complete moron if you think I'm an admiral simp. :mjha


Again, shitty reading comprehension coming from the guy who somehow missed my point 2x in a row...

:mjha
Gorosei > Admirals buddy. Red pup nem was never gonna be final villains, deal with it.
 
My issue isn't with the fact we have WG antagonists who might be stronger than admirals. It's the way the story was set up.

-The WG is terrified of the yonko. The Gorosei were worried about making Kaido angry and even Admirals like Greenbull openly admit to fearing him (along with Shanks). The Marines wanted every advantage they could get in order to go to war with WB, including brainwashing Squard to sneak stab him even though WB is old as hell and sick. The WG/Marines always tip toe on eggshells with the yonko. Nobody dared to invade Wano or Whole Cake. Nobody dared to try and take back Fishmen Island when Whitebeard said it was his territory. Nobody dared to start a war with Shanks when he challenged the Marines and pirates at Marineford. The World Government had to make deals with Kaido and Orochi for weapons. None of this would make any goddamn sense if this whole time the WG has had multiple fighters who are yonko level or above just sitting around doing nothing.

-Garp stated that the WG created the warlord system in order to maintain the "balance of power". The Marines simply could not handle fighting all the pirates themselves and allied themselves with other notable pirates such as Mihawk, Crocodile, Doflamingo, etc so that the yonko didn't just totally dominate the Grand Line. This is actually similar to governments in the past using buccaneers and privateers.

-The warlord system wasn't removed until AFTER the creation of the serpahim despite the fact the warlords became a major liability and double crossed them several times. Again, the point must be emphasized that the Marines COULDN'T HANDLE the pirates alone.

-The Marines were desperate for more strength after Aokiji quit and needed a world draft to enlist Greenbull and Fujitora. The implication is that fighters who had Admiral level strength were rare and that the Marines simply didn't have enough top tiers to fill their own ranks. Even the Vice Admirals simply didn't measure up outside of outliers like Garp.

-The WG tried to end the great age of piracy TWICE. The first time was by publicly executing Roger, they hoped they could kill the motivation to go out and plunder but this backfired. The 2nd time was by killing WB but again, WB managed to keep the burning passion of piracy alive by confirming the One Piece exists. Both times the WG was extremely angry and they desperately wanted to end the surge of pirates.

Put all these factors together and the picture becomes clear: the Marines sorely lack manpower. They need to rely on sheer numbers and outside forces such as the warlords/serpahim to keep up with the pirates. The WG itself is scared of the yonko and the yonko are >/= Admirals in individual strength. It wouldn't make sense if a bunch of Admiral+ level characters are just sitting around at Marijoa doing nothing when they could have been helping the Marines put an end to the great age of pirates. It's nothing more than plot induced stupidity.

Again the issue isn't the possibility of characters being stronger than admirals...I don't care if that's true. My issue is the writing makes the reveal very heavy handed and confusing. Why the hell would the holy knights and gorosei just chill on the red line when Akainu desperately needs more manpower?!? Why bother teaming up with warlords if you could have just had the holy knights help patrol the grand line instead? Similarly, why the need for a major world draft to find soldiers with high potential like Greenbull/Fujitora if you could have simply had some holy knights become Admirals...??? Why waste time with this big stalemate with the yonko system, making weapons trades with Kaido, negotiating with Shanks, etc when you can just gather all the Gorosei+Admirals+a huge fleet of ships and pacifistas to storm a yonko territory and wipe them out??? No yonko would survive that. The Great Age of Piracy would be OVER...! The grand line would belong to the World Government!
You are getting the World Government (WG) and Marines/Navy mixed up. The Marines and Navy serve the World Government, but they aren't exactly the same thing. In comparison, the WG is basically the United States, and the Navy is the U.S. Navy. They are related and connected but aren't the same thing. Especially in a world like One Piece where the World Government has its own secret fighters.

The Marines/Navy and Admiral's role is to counteract the Pirates and Yonko. The existence of pirates justifies the World Government and Marines existing to the average man in a World Government-aligned nation. justifies the heavenly tribute and celestial dragon's status as the "gods" that created the One-Piece World Government. The World Government is a shadowy and mysterious organization that doesn't show its hand and abilities until absolutely necessary.

TBH, I don't think the World Government cares about taking over places like Wano, Whole Cake Island, Fishman Island, and Elbaf. I believe that the WG is satisfied with the current number of members and doesn't want such strange people being added to its protection and service. The WG doesn't want to expend its resources trying to wipe out the Yonko went they can make deals with them or just outright ignore them entirely.

Big Mom, Kaido, Shanks, Whitebeard, and Roger's goal wasn't to overthrow and destroy the World Government by themselves like Monkey D. Dragon is trying to do. The Yonko don't like the World Government and Marines especially; however, they aren't trying to overthrow the entire world order and society because it is too dangerous and costly. Basically, the Pirates and Yonko and Marines and Admirals are in a Cold War Superpower tug of war. Two powerful entities that don't want to step on the other's feet.

The World Government doesn't truly care about eradicating all piracy at the cost own their own regime and massive internal casualties. Imu, Gorosei, and Holy Knights don't care about wiping out the Yonko unless they attack the celestial dragons and Holy Land of Mary Goeis itself. It is the Marines and Navy's job to be focused on killing and wiping out pirates and providing justification for the Marines and the World Government. The Celestial Dragons don't feel threatened by the Yonko or Pirate King unlike Rocks D. Xebec because unlike them he wanted to become the King of the World and possibly overthrow Saint Imu-sama of House Nerona just like Monkey D. Dragon. Hence, why Xebec committed the World's Greatest Taboo and Dragon is the World's Most Wanted Criminal.

Roger, Whitebeard, Big Mom, Kaido, and Shanks don't want to overthrow the World Government but create their own spheres of influence in parts of the One-Piece world. Only, the Sun God Nika can bring the Drums of Liberation to Mary Goeis! JoyBoy tried once before eight hundred years ago but failed even with allies such as the ancient kingdoms of Skypeia, Fishman Island, Alabasta, Wano, and etc but still lost to Imu and the other twenty founders. It is Luffy's destiny as the Bringer of the Dawn, Reincarnation of the Sun God, and Holder of the Will of D to fulfill JoyBoy's role!
 
The moment a villain kills their own subordinates for no reason, they’ve crossed into cartoonish territory
Saturn killed a Marine mook for insubordination, which is a common cliche for Lawful Evil characters like Saturn. Akainu did something to a Marine mook for violating orders by attempting to go AWOL.

The key trait of cartoonish villainy is when villains engage in activities like killing subordinates because they find it funny irrespective of the consequences of their actions. As cruel as Saturn is, however, everything he does is is with purpose. His psychological abuse toward people like Vegapunk isn't motivated by just sheer sadism, Saturn perceives Vegapunk to be a traitor for secretly researching the Void Century. And prior to attempting to kill Vegapunk, Saturn actually bothered to investigate the situation to ascertain whether the allegations against Vegapunk were true or not.
 
My point was that the Gorosei weren't portrayed this way at all and were stoic, strictly business types for hundreds of chapters. They were seemingly pragmatic and somewhat reasonable.

Then Saturn goes full arrogant, pompous douche mode showing off his power, gloating, etc. As for him killing the Marine, he wasn't exactly remorseful and blamed him for it lol.
They still are though.

He didn't kill him for no reason though like I said earlier. They were warned to not look at him. One marine looked at him anyways. If Saturn appeared and just started killing marines for no reason without having warned them beforehand, then you'd have something.
 
They still are though.

He didn't kill him for no reason though like I said earlier. They were warned to not look at him. One marine looked at him anyways. If Saturn appeared and just started killing marines for no reason without having warned them beforehand, then you'd have something.
Also, we don't know if directly looking at Saturn in that form as a fodder marine kills you instantly. Maybe, Saturn killed those Marine on purpose or possibly it is just a bypass effect like Conqueror Haki
 
You are getting the World Government (WG) and Marines/Navy mixed up. The Marines and Navy serve the World Government, but they aren't exactly the same thing. In comparison, the WG is basically the United States, and the Navy is the U.S. Navy. They are related and connected but aren't the same thing. Especially in a world like One Piece where the World Government has its own secret fighters.

The Marines/Navy and Admiral's role is to counteract the Pirates and Yonko. The existence of pirates justifies the World Government and Marines existing to the average man in a World Government-aligned nation. justifies the heavenly tribute and celestial dragon's status as the "gods" that created the One-Piece World Government. The World Government is a shadowy and mysterious organization that doesn't show its hand and abilities until absolutely necessary.

TBH, I don't think the World Government cares about taking over places like Wano, Whole Cake Island, Fishman Island, and Elbaf. I believe that the WG is satisfied with the current number of members and doesn't want such strange people being added to its protection and service. The WG doesn't want to expend its resources trying to wipe out the Yonko went they can make deals with them or just outright ignore them entirely.

Big Mom, Kaido, Shanks, Whitebeard, and Roger's goal wasn't to overthrow and destroy the World Government by themselves like Monkey D. Dragon is trying to do. The Yonko don't like the World Government and Marines especially; however, they aren't trying to overthrow the entire world order and society because it is too dangerous and costly. Basically, the Pirates and Yonko and Marines and Admirals are in a Cold War Superpower tug of war. Two powerful entities that don't want to step on the other's feet.

The World Government doesn't truly care about eradicating all piracy at the cost own their own regime and massive internal casualties. Imu, Gorosei, and Holy Knights don't care about wiping out the Yonko unless they attack the celestial dragons and Holy Land of Mary Goeis itself. It is the Marines and Navy's job to be focused on killing and wiping out pirates and providing justification for the Marines and the World Government. The Celestial Dragons don't feel threatened by the Yonko or Pirate King unlike Rocks D. Xebec because unlike them he wanted to become the King of the World and possibly overthrow Saint Imu-sama of House Nerona just like Monkey D. Dragon. Hence, why Xebec committed the World's Greatest Taboo and Dragon is the World's Most Wanted Criminal.

Roger, Whitebeard, Big Mom, Kaido, and Shanks don't want to overthrow the World Government but create their own spheres of influence in parts of the One-Piece world. Only, the Sun God Nika can bring the Drums of Liberation to Mary Goeis! JoyBoy tried once before eight hundred years ago but failed even with allies such as the ancient kingdoms of Skypeia, Fishman Island, Alabasta, Wano, and etc but still lost to Imu and the other twenty founders. It is Luffy's destiny as the Bringer of the Dawn, Reincarnation of the Sun God, and Holder of the Will of D to fulfill JoyBoy's role!
I'm not mixing anything up. The Marines have to serve the interest of the WG and can't make major decisions without their permission. The WG also frequently tells the Marines exactly what they want them to do and can overrule the Fleet Admiral.

Yes I'm aware that pirates existing benefits the WG. That doesn't change the fact the WG wants to end the age of piracy and dominate the seas. That's why they're building the giant bridge. That's why they created the Marines in the first place. It's why they tried to take over Wano when the Raid was happening hoping all the pirates would kill each other off or become weak enough to take over.

They do care about Wano. That's where they can get seastone and weapons. Kaido and Doflamingo had the WG by the balls and they needed to make deals with them. They care about Elbaf because they have giants and the WG wants to have a giant army (that's why they did experiments to make soldiers bigger). They make deals with the yonko because they simply do not have the manpower to take on all 4 of the yonko. Even just 1 yonko crew requires tons of soldiers to take on. This has been firmly established for hundreds of chapters.

To claim the WG just doesn't care about the yonko is factually incorrect. They hate the yonko. Their very existence is an insult to the totalitarian regime of the Celestial Dragons who call themselves the "gods" of the world. The yonko allow for a completely different form of government where nobody has to answer to the WG or pay tribute. This is very problematic because most of the yonko incite anarchy and violence and they also try to learn the true history. Most of them want to become pirate king and to do that you need to read the poneglyphs and reading those can turn the world upside down because of their dark secrets. Did you not read the Ohara flashback? The WG ordered the complete genocide of a country just for reading them and nearly every yonko pursues that knowledge despite the taboo.

Kaido DOES want to overthrow the government, what are you talking about? He said it explicitly in his own flashback. The WG fears him and the Gorosei even argued with each other if it was a good idea to interfere in his fight. Him and Big Mom both OPENLY said they would find the Ancient Weapons and destroy the Celestials to take over the world...that's why Sengoku freaked out because the WG still has PTSD due to the Rocks pirates. Blackbeard also OPENLY said he was going to take over the world at Marineford and the Gorosei fear him admitting that since he ate 2 super powerful devil fruits they're certain only the other yonko can stop him and that's why they negotiate with him.

Honestly your arguments of the Gorosei/Holy Knights simply brushing off the threat of the pirates just doesn't hold up.
 
They still are though.

He didn't kill him for no reason though like I said earlier. They were warned to not look at him. One marine looked at him anyways. If Saturn appeared and just started killing marines for no reason without having warned them beforehand, then you'd have something.
It's the fact he went on a tirade calling them insects. That's Frieza level behavior.

There's nothing pragmatic or stoic in letting someone stab you just so you can humiliate them.

There's nothing pragmatic or stoic in wasting time chewing out a soldier for not finishing the job instead of just killing the target when you're supposedly in a hurry. He can chew Kizaru out later. The only reason Saturn didn't immediately take advantage of Luffy being exhausted to kill Vegapunk was plot induced stupidity, period.
 
For the people asking why the Government didn't go after Luffy...

...for all we know Luffy is the 200th user of the Nika fruit since Joy Boy and all of them failed to awaken it so they don't bother to treat them much differently than other enemies.

The same is likely true for the 'D.' who are considered 'enemies of the gods' yet are allowed to serve as Marines and Shichibukai.
 
For the people asking why the Government didn't go after Luffy...

...for all we know Luffy is the 200th user of the Nika fruit since Joy Boy and all of them failed to awaken it so they don't bother to treat them much differently than other enemies.

The same is likely true for the 'D.' who are considered 'enemies of the gods' yet are allowed to serve as Marines and Shichibukai.
That still doesn't make any sense when you examine the facts.

Luffy wasn't just some random rubber fruit user, he was hell bent on causing a ruckus everywhere he went. They KNEW he was a D clan member and the son of Dragon, that alone should've been a huge red flag. He was going from island to island fighting pirates, marines, and liberating islands. It should have been obvious. Luffy should've had top dogs going after him after he beat 2 warlords and destroyed a government facility to rescue a crewmate that could read poneglphys. They should've nipped it in the bud right then and there and the only reason they didn't was PIS.

Saul and Garp were allowed to live because they were useful, strong soldiers. When Saul got in the way, they tried to execute him and they don't know he's alive. Garp is seemingly a loyal dog. Law and Blackbeard were two of the few warlords actually doing their job capturing other pirates and keeping the grand line in order before they rebelled. That's totally different from just letting Luffy go nuts unchecked across a dozen islands.
 
Yeah, the fact that the Gorōsei knows the true nature of the fruit is the biggest plothole in the series. It was unnecessary for them to do so, you should've had people like Sukiyaki or the same Yamato (via Oden diary, also via Laugh Tale visit) giving all the hype for the fruit and only have the Gorōsei react AFTER Luffy awakened it (an "I sense a disturbance in the force" shit where they for some reason just knew in real time that their archnemesis was awakened) and then proceed to explain why it is so problematic and dangerous.
 
I still want to see how events with Saturn play out.

It’s interesting that the Gorosei are named after the planets, but so is King Neptune of the Fishman, which is why of the Ancient Weapons Poseidon is the only one with Greek name, rather than Roman.

Maybe each of the Gorosei are an Ancient Weapon themselves, who, like the Ancient Robot in Egghead, have run out of their original power supply.

On that note anyway maybe the Gorosei and Ancient Weapons have a built in power tier we can gauge

1. Joy Boy: Sun God Nika is the most powerful Ancient Weapon

2. Warcury is the strongest Gorosei

3. Nasjuro comes after

4. Take the place of “Earth”, will be Loki and the Giants of Elbaf

5. Momo and the Minks will stand as the Moon

6. Mars is the third strongest, which is fitting since he’s always in the middle when they’re featured

7. Ju Peter will be the next Gorosei we encounter

8. Saturn as the weakest of the Gorosei

9. Uranus is likely to be Shanks

10. Neptune and Poseidon

11. Vivi and Pluton

Powerscaling brought to you by the planets orbits.
 
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