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DatClone vs. SM Jiraiya

Who wins?


  • Total voters
    37
  • This poll will close: .

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
Then why not just make a thread of KCM Naruto vs Jiraiya rather than calling it DatClone if the argument here is that Naruto is going to be all but the same thing as his normal self?

Makes no sense
I didn’t make the thread though

question the person that did
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
His feats include getting off paneled

Off panel makes it literally not a feat. Try again.

Meanwhile, Jiraiya nearly got off paneled by Genin Naruto becoming KN4, an inferior form to KCM in the hands of an inferior Naruto, and got kicked in the face by Base Guy on panel. Going by your logic, Base Jiraiya isn't even Kage level.

seemingly being out performed by Chojuro

You mean like Boruto outperformed Adult Naruto, P1 Naruto outperformed Kakashi, Sakura outperformed Chiyo...?

needing help on several occasions having its life saved,

Ohnoki and Gaara needed help against their respective Kages too. I guess Ohnoki and Gaara aren't Kage level either /s

needing the perfect intel

Liar :camby

Naruto didn't have ''perfect intel'', Gyuki didn't even know Ay3 injured himself lmao, Naruto is the one that reached that conclusion off that intel. KCM Naruto's clone outsped and tagged Ay3 multiple times without said intel too, something you conveniently disregard.

not using shunshin,

Literally catches up to Ay3 and slams him with a Rasenshuriken before he can do a thing...

Are you inebriated?

showing little to no durability

Literally blocks multiple swords, headtanks one, to save Hinata. Bro, stop capping.

All the while ignoring that this would ultimately place KCM Naruto leagues above Hokage Minato who by feats stalemates A&B with A himself barely on the bridge of being a High Kage himself

Or maybe you underestimate Killer Bee and Minato :vegetak

Makes more sense, given that Minato beat Obito, outsped Tobirama, sealed 50% of Kurama, and could counter attacks from the Juubi. Bee on the other hand is the first character to damage the Juubi, provided most of the AP for destroying Nagato's Chibaku Tensei, and can give the Sannin a fight. Naruto is still being compared to Minato EVEN AFTER KCM2, Minato is stronger than you think, buddy.

But yes, let's twist the narrative because of our dislike for the Sannin

Says the liar twisting the narrative because of his Jiraiya fandom :russ
 
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Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
Off panel makes it literally not a feat. Try again.

Meanwhile, Jiraiya nearly got off paneled by Genin Naruto becoming KN4, an inferior form to KCM in the hands of an inferior Naruto, and got kicked in the face by Base Guy on panel. Going by your logic, Base Jiraiya isn't even Kage level.



You mean like Boruto outperformed Adult Naruto, P1 Naruto outperformed Kakashi, Sakura outperformed Chiyo...?



Ohnoki and Gaara needed help against their respective Kages too. I guess Ohnoki and Gaara aren't Kage level either /s



Liar :camby

Naruto didn't have ''perfect intel'', Gyuki didn't even know Ay3 injured himself lmao, Naruto is the one that reached that conclusion off that intel. KCM Naruto's clone outsped and tagged Ay3 multiple times without said intel too, something you conveniently disregard.



Literally catches up to Ay3 and slams him with a Rasenshuriken before he can do a thing...

Are you inebriated?



Literally blocks multiple swords, headtanks one, to save Hinata. Bro, stop capping.



Or maybe you underestimate Killer Bee and Minato :vegetak

Makes more sense, given that Minato beat Obito, outsped Tobirama, sealed 50% of Kurama, and could counter attacks from the Juubi. Bee on the other hand is the first character to damage the Juubi, provided most of the AP for destroying Nagato's Chibaku Tensei, and can give the Sannin a fight. Naruto is still being compared to Minato EVEN AFTER KCM2, Minato is stronger than you think, buddy.



Says the liar twisting the narrative because of his Jiraiya fandom :russ

All of this means nothing now that it has been shown that this particular clone was likely performing on a level (potentially) as the normal KCM Naruto would have.

All this 7.6% (1/13th) clone having the feats you think it does and going out of your way to sound dumb is no longer worth a discussion.

Scan show that this clone is more or less KCM Naruto himself. And not just a weak doppelganger.
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
All of this means nothing now that it has been shown that this particular clone was likely performing on a level (potentially) as the normal KCM Naruto would have

Shown how?

Sounds to me as if you clutched to the first straw someone offered you. Not that I doubt Grinningfox is honest, but you...

All this 7.6% (1/13th) clone having the feats you think it does

The feats are all on panel, kiddo. Try again.

Or did I ''think'' the clone manifested a Bijuu Bomb?

and going out of your way to sound dumb

Oh please, I pale in comparison to you there lol. I mean...Mr. ''Naruto can't use Shunshin even though he blitzed Ay3'' :russ

Scan show that this clone is more or less KCM Naruto himself

No, they do not.

And not just a weak doppelganger.

Doppelgangers aren't weak if the user isn't. Try again, troll :camby
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
Shown how?

Sounds to me as if you clutched to the first straw someone offered you. Not that I doubt Grinningfox is honest, but you...



The feats are all on panel, kiddo. Try again.

Or did I ''think'' the clone manifested a Bijuu Bomb?



Oh please, I pale in comparison to you there lol. I mean...Mr. ''Naruto can't use Shunshin even though he blitzed Ay3'' :russ



No, they do not.



Doppelgangers aren't weak if the user isn't. Try again, troll :camby

Are you saying @Grinningfox and @MHA massive fan is wrong then?

Because they have scans showing this to be true that I was unaware of.

Even if you go against what they're saying, and you think this weakened clone is beating Sage Jiraiya, all that means is you likely rank this weakened clone above a good majority of other High Kage and also rank KCM Naruto at Nagato tier or above.

Which makes you sound retarded either way
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
Are you saying @Grinningfox and @MHA massive fan is wrong then?

Um, yes?

Because they have scans showing this to be true that I was unaware of

I don't see their scans :hm

@Grinningfox Mind sharing them again?

Even if you go against what they're saying, and you think this weakened clone is beating Sage Jiraiya all that means is you likely rank this weakened clone above a good majority of other High Kage

Why, I do.

and also rank KCM Naruto at Nagato tier or above

I do. KCM Naruto only lost to Nagato after heavily weakening himself.

And even then, one could argue PIS was at play (Naruto is more interested in talking to Nagato than fighting him).

Which makes you sound retarded either way

Nah, I just know what I'm talking about.

Reported for ableism.
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men

...?

All this means is that Kurama drags off an equal amount of chakra from each clone Naruto makes compared to the original.

If Naruto has 100 chakra points and Kurama drags 30, Naruto has 70 chakra points.

If Naruto loses 50 chakra points upon making a clone and then loses 30 chakra points to Kurama, leaving them at 20 each.
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
...?

All this means is that Kurama drags off an equal amount of chakra from each clone Naruto makes compared to the original.

If Naruto has 100 chakra points and Kurama drags 30, Naruto has 70 chakra points.

If Naruto loses 50 chakra points upon making a clone and then loses 30 chakra points to Kurama, leaving them at 20 each.

This does nothing against the evidence that if the real Naruto is focused elsewhere that the clone is much weaker as stated by Madara after beating a Hashirama clone.
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
This does nothing against the evidence that if the real Naruto is focused elsewhere that the clone is much weaker as stated by Madara after beating a Hashirama clone.
Stop it
None of what he is saying can contradict the fact that tobriama the creator of clones called them weak distractions if they could have equal chakra to the original then why exactly are they weak distractions
 

Isaiah13000

Father and Son
Ok this is true thus far. What you fail to notice is A3 was put on the defensively instantly. Why won’t Jiriaya having ranged jutsu doesn’t suddenly stop that from happening . Else could claim deidara would use range jutsu to stop FRS from hitting him or any ninja with range jutsu . Darui , Itachi etc. Suddenly Having range doesn’t prevent a faster ninja with faster jutsu from executing their jutsu

So long as you are consistent I am fine . What I can’t stand is inconsistent thought process

I’ll tag you shortly on a thread I want to see what you think properly
I mean, you say that as if getting Rasenshuriken to land hasn't been depicted as an issue in every fight Naruto's been in (prior to SPSM) when he's used it against someone. He struggled to get it to land against the Deva multiple times, he only got it to land on Kurama because Kushina was restraining him, and he struggled to land it on A3. Now sure Kurama and A3 are noted to be fast, but Deva isn't, and even though his feats indicate he is: there's still no reason to assume he'd be more reflexive than SM Jiraiya at all, considering he lacks SM sensing. And yes, I would say Deidara could intercept it considering he's an aerial long-ranged fighter and has guided missiles. I don't have any reason to believe Rasenshuriken is so fast from a distance that most Kage levels can't react to it or intercept it, it hasn't even been depicted that way. Dodging it at close-range is depicted as impressive, not from long-range. Naruto would simply have no issue getting to land against most because of the various other tools in his arsenal, but it by itself could be stopped.
Feats is why
Jiraiya fastest possible jutsu from behind animal path was easier for the paths to react to than SM naruto throwing FRS from much further away

that’s why
No it wasn't. They reacted to both attacks just fine, the difference is they could actually block Jiraiya's attack, whilst Naruto's attack couldn't be blocked once the Preta was dead and the Deva was on cooldown so they had to dodge: and dodging is much harder than blocking. That is even noted in the instance when Jiraiya uses his hair attack, and they could only block it due to shared vision anyway.
 
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Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
I mean, you say that as if getting Rasenshuriken to land hasn't been depicted as an issue in every fight Naruto's been in

This is one of the dumbest arguments possible. Ignoring the fact KCM Naruto's clone blitzed Ay3 with it of all people - someone at least as fast as SM Jiraiya - going by your logic, Jiraiya loses this fight because he's lost every on-panel fight he's been in lol.

Dude lost to Orochimaru in P1 and Pain in P2, and he is never technically stated to have beaten KN4 Naruto :vegetak

Naruto actually DID land the FRS, multiple times in fact, and solo (once against Pain, once against Kakuzu second try, twice against Kurama, twice against the Juubi, once against Ay3, once against Kaguya, and once against Juudara).

If Saninband can count, they'd gather 3:1 is the rate. Naruto overall is FAR more likely to land FRS than not.

He has only missed a Rasenshuriken thrice (Kimimaro, Yahiko Path, and Kakuzu) in contrast, and the Kakuzu one only because it fizzled out at the literal last second, a problem Naruto doesn't really have any more.
 

Isaiah13000

Father and Son
This is one of the dumbest arguments possible. Ignoring the fact KCM Naruto's clone blitzed Ay3 with it of all people - someone at least as fast as SM Jiraiya - going by your logic, Jiraiya loses this fight because he's lost every on-panel fight he's been in lol.

Dude lost to Orochimaru in P1 and Pain in P2, and he is never technically stated to have beaten KN4 Naruto :vegetak

Naruto actually DID land the FRS, multiple times in fact, and solo (once against Pain, once against Kakuzu second try, twice against Kurama, twice against the Juubi, once against Ay3, once against Kaguya, and once against Juudara).

If Saninband can count, they'd gather 3:1 is the rate. Naruto overall is FAR more likely to land FRS than not.

He has only missed a Rasenshuriken thrice (Kimimaro, Yahiko Path, and Kakuzu) in contrast, and the Kakuzu one only because it fizzled out at the literal last second, a problem Naruto doesn't really have any more.
I was referring to prior to becoming God Tier, not to mention even in those instances Naruto didn't do it because of how fast Rasenshuriken itself: there are various factors that went into all of that. Also, he literally never blitzed A3 so I'm not sure what you're on about.
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
I mean, you say that as if getting Rasenshuriken to land hasn't been depicted as an issue in every fight Naruto's been in (prior to SPSM) when he's used it against someone. He struggled to get it to land against the Deva multiple times, he only got it to land on Kurama because Kushina was restraining him, and he struggled to land it on A3. Now sure Kurama and A3 are noted to be fast, but Deva isn't, and even though his feats indicate he is: there's still no reason to assume he'd be more reflexive than SM Jiraiya at all, considering he lacks SM sensing. And yes, I would say Deidara could intercept it considering he's an aerial long-ranged fighter and has guided missiles. I don't have any reason to believe Rasenshuriken is so fast from a distance that most Kage levels can't react to it or intercept it, it hasn't even been depicted that way. Dodging it at close-range is depicted as impressive, not from long-range. Naruto would simply have no issue getting to land against most because of the various other tools in his arsenal, but it by itself could be stopped.
He never struggled to land it in KCm though which is what we discussing here
No it wasn't. They reacted to both attacks just fine, the difference is they could actually block Jiraiya's attack, whilst Naruto's attack couldn't be blocked once the Preta was dead and the Deva was on cooldown so they had to dodge: and dodging is much harder than blocking. That is even noted in the instance when Jiraiya uses his hair attack, and they could only block it due to shared vision anyway.
You have still yet to tell me what jutsu Jiriaya is using to block FRS though. I’ve never claimed Jiriaya CAnt react I am saying what does he do to stop FRS? please tell me precisely . Hope it isn’t lion mane or any other poorly performing jutsu you intend to mention
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
I was referring to prior to becoming

Why does that matter though? :hm

It's still Naruto and still the Rasenshuriken.

not to mention even in those instances Naruto didn't do it because of how fast Rasenshuriken itself: there are various factors that went into all of that

Cool story, bro. The Rasenshuriken decimated Human Path, and would have killed Animal instead if not for Human saving her. The other paths barely make it out of its range. Human Path was fast enough to blindside SM Jiraiya while fighting alongside the other two and Animal Path could cast handseals in response to Jiraiya's fastest ranged attack in SM in spite of being distracted.

Also, Naruto can arrange those ''various factors'' in battle for himself as he did in those other fights.

Also, he literally never blitzed A3

Read the manga, kid :camby

 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
@Isaiah13000
What I am asking is
1. If naruto throws FRS and Jiriaya uses Katon what happens?
A. Katon overwhelms it , sadly Katon is shit to naruto as on panel he has been shown no selling larger katons as have fodders with his cloak
B. FRS pushes the fire back large fire hits Jiraiya . What happens to Jiriaya ?

2. Jiriaya summons bunta to tank FRS what happens
A. Bunta tanks it
B. Bunta gets taken out

and so on. What does Jiriaya specifically do in the time naruto throws FRS

3. Jiriaya uses frog call in response to FRs What happens

4. he attempts YN to intercept what happens

etc
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
Why does that matter though? :hm

It's still Naruto and still the Rasenshuriken.



Cool story, bro. The Rasenshuriken decimated Human Path, and would have killed Animal instead if not for Human saving her. The other paths barely make it out of its range. Human Path was fast enough to blindside SM Jiraiya while fighting alongside the other two and Animal Path could cast handseals in response to Jiraiya's fastest ranged attack in SM in spite of being distracted.

Also, Naruto can arrange those ''various factors'' in battle for himself as he did in those other fights.



Read the manga, kid :camby


That's not a blitz.....

Naruto caught the FRS while standing close behind A3 as he dodges the 2nd attack. He's already right next to him.
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
That's not a blitz.....

Naruto caught the FRS while standing close behind A3 as he dodges the 2nd attack

Yes, yes it is a blitz.

Naruto wasn't standing ''close behind'' Ay3. He was standing at a distance, it's clear to see and Naruto even says he covered distance while coming to hit Ay3. He caught the FRS and slammed it into Ay3 before the latter could do a thing. That's a blitz.

There are literal movement lines in the image where Naruto comes at Ay3.
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
Yes, yes it is a blitz.

Naruto wasn't standing ''close behind'' Ay3. He was standing at a distance, it's clear to see and Naruto even says he covered distance while coming to hit Ay3. He caught the FRS and slammed it into Ay3 before the latter could do a thing. That's a blitz.

There are literal movement lines in the image where Naruto comes at Ay3.

Show in the scan where he is standing at a "distance". Because from I see in the manga and anime is after the 2nd attempt, Naruto is already positioned directly behind A3 for a 3rd follow up attack.
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
Im back

And it's 26-10 in favor of the clone

:gokuskully

I'm wondering what is so funny?

Even I favor the clone now as I'm convinced that @Grinningfox @MHA massive fan is correct about that particular clone (not each one simultaneously) being at least near KCM Naruto himself. (Obviously Jiraiya loses to KCM Naruto).

Someone ought to make a who thread explaining this topic. It seems to be confusing to most.
 

ATastyMuffin

Kanye's Biggest Fan
If this is so true, that just means this "weakened doppelganger " is beating the likes of A3, Mu, Gengetsu, Living Itachi (likely), Sage Naruto, MS Sasuke etc.

You guys are acting like since you falsely place KCM Clone above Sage Jiraiya that it means Jiraiya is weak.

When it just means you're overrating him or not understanding where it ultimately places this clone amongst others who most consider High Kage as it is.

When Sannin hate/downplay completely clouds your ability to think clearly

:catface
I just wanna make something clear here

Just because we think KCM clone > Sannin does not mean we think it can also beat A3, SM/MS Fate Bros., etc

Because those guys are above the Sannin

:gokuskully
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
I just wanna make something clear here

Just because we think KCM clone > Sannin does not mean we think it can also beat A3, SM/MS Fate Bros., etc

Because those guys are above the Sannin

:gokuskully

Just because your poll says one thing, doesn't mean you get to just say "we" about all of your other opinions as if they all now agree with everything you say.

Furthermore, that clone did beat A3. It did beat Mu, it's the main arguments used here.... Hell, @Aegon Targaryen swears the clone was able to blitz the Raikage. And from what I've gathered from my time here is that most people will think that characters who can beat Mu and A3 have at least a solid shot at beat SM Naruto/MS Sasuke.

You're inconsistent. And that's because you're trying hard to find a way to downplay the Sannin, as per usual.

Not that any of that matters as you ignored this post of mine. And did so for a reason. That clone was more likened to the real KCM Naruto than it was to anything else.

I'm wondering what is so funny?

Even I favor the clone now as I'm convinced that @Grinningfox @MHA massive fan is correct about that particular clone (not each one simultaneously) being at least near KCM Naruto himself. (Obviously Jiraiya loses to KCM Naruto).

Someone ought to make a who thread explaining this topic. It seems to be confusing to most.
 

ATastyMuffin

Kanye's Biggest Fan
This guy is so upset that his uwu pervy Roshi character gets low-diffed by A3 and KCM Naruto

B-BUT MUH EQUAL WITH LIVING ITACHI

:gokuskully
 
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