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DatClone vs. SM Jiraiya

Who wins?


  • Total voters
    37
  • This poll will close: .

ATastyMuffin

Kanye's Biggest Fan


____________________________________________________________________

Location: Konoha crater
Distance: 20 meters
Mindset: IC
Knowledge: Full
Restrictions: Higher forms for Naruto

This is the same clone that assisted Gaara, Ōnoki and Temari. Who wins?
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡


____________________________________________________________________

Location: Konoha crater
Distance: 20 meters
Mindset: IC
Knowledge: Full
Restrictions: Higher forms for Naruto

This is the same clone that assisted Gaara, Ōnoki and Temari. Who wins?

Still not wanting to concede that Sage Naruto isn't 13 times stronger than Sage Jiraiya, but instead makes this thread

:catshrug

OT:

How do we know how fast this clone is?

How do we know what durability it has?

What we do know is that he is 1/13th (or 7.6%) the strength of normal KCM Naruto.

Jiraiya isn't losing to a single clone. In fact one clone doesn't even have that great of feats if you're looking for those without ANY assistance from other shinobi.
 

Nali

Active Member
Am I the only one who thinks jiraiya can win? He's criminally underrated like the others Sannin.

ok I saw the votes and i'm not the only one
 

Bonly

Well-Known Member
The Naruto clone wins Low diff! He's gonna use a FRS in one hand with a COR in the otherhand and a Wakusei Rasengan in some chakra arms and he will proceed to blitz and nuke Jiraiya to hell in a yellow flash!
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
True. KCM Naruto would murk Sage Jiraiya no doubt about that.

But a clone with 7.6% of his normal chakra stat with little to no durability? I don't think so
Said clone can still throw and guide FRS something Jiriaya can’t avoid
As NOTHING but head canon on your part can be used to claim Jiraiya would be faster than A3 or the clone throwing the FRS which is what Jiriaya would need to avoid it .
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
Naruto's clones are being severely overrated here, they were turning the tide of the battlefield due to sensing where the White Zetsus were, not because of their power. Naruto's NTCM clones haven't defeated a single opponent they've faced by themselves without some form of assistance and some of them disappeared while many Edos were still alive indicating they lost to them.

The main issue is you keep thinking Naruto's clones are way stronger than they really are, and are anywhere near as strong as Naruto himself is. One of his clones had trouble with Black Zetsu for crying out loud, who got overwhelmed by Chojuro. Naruto's NTCM clone would've lost to Mu if not for Gaara's intervention. You call it an "extra foothold" as if to downplay it, when had that not been there Naruto, Onoki, and Gaara would've all been erased a second later. Gengetsu lost to Gaara with Onoki's assistance and by Gaara having to use his father's Gold Dust that he wouldn't normally have. You're omitting a lot of crucial details here in favor of making A3 seem stronger than he is actually depicted.

As for the Akatsuki, DB3 specifically states that any Akatsuki duo in general are capable of taking on the tailed beasts and that's literally what they did for years. Your speculation about how they did it is irrelevant, Kakuzu and Hidan still beat Matatabi, and it was specifically stated and shown that it was Deidara who defeated Isobu not Obito: he literally didn't do a single thing but run away. Its also odd you'd post that scan as if that'd help you when it specifically states "unarmored" and "unarmed", which is what I've said before. His hype is about being able to physically clash with a tailed beast, not about being able to do it in general.
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
Explain.

Sure Jiraiya isn't faster than A3 in shunshin certainly. But he has a far more diverse arsenal and his style of combat isn't nearly as straight forward.
Why would a diverse arsenal not require him to avoid it?
Or is there something in his arsenal that can defend against it ? Curious to see what you mention

also note gotta be something that can be used quick enough to prevent naruto from using it . We already know what Jiraiya fastest possible jutsu in SM is .

seeing a faster opponent A3 could barely avoid it and ultimately got hit by it . I want to know what a slower Jiriaya can pull off

hope it isn’t going to be in the time naruto throws FRS , Jiriaya has already summoned bunta , created 3 clones , used YN and all the other things .
 

MagicalMiraclesOfWater65

Well-Known Member
Jiraiya likely wins.

I feel like KN4 is significantly stronger than a fractional KCM Naruto who couldn't exceed the Edo Kages in terms of battle power, and additionally, there's the fact that they were significantly weakened being an Edo, like exemplified by A3's impenetrable physique being lacerated multifariously by a Fūton: Rasenshuriken, that he, apparently isn't supposed to be even whittled by - if the Databook's, and Naruto's statement are anything to go by.

KCM Naruto explicitly claims that Sage Mode is apparently faster, and the author exemplifies that it's likely stronger as well when the former drilled a Senpo: Palm Rasengan through his RnY invigorated hand, repelling it back at his chest, inflicting a substantial wound, something a fractional KCM Naruto couldn't acclimate, which is indicative of the former's superiority.

From a portrayal perspective, Juubi Jinchuuriki Obito alludes to the fact that an officiating reason on why BSM Naruto, Jūugo Empowered EMS Sasuke in conjunct with the K11 protégés cannonically defeated him, is due to the implicative fact that they were Jiraiya's students - which alludes to the exorbitant power stature that the author apparently billets the latter at.
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
Why would a diverse arsenal not require him to avoid it?
Or is there something in his arsenal that can defend against it ? Curious to see what you mention

also note gotta be something that can be used quick enough to prevent naruto from using it . We already know what Jiraiya fastest possible jutsu in SM is .

seeing a faster opponent A3 could barely avoid it and ultimately got hit by it . I want to know what a slower Jiriaya can pull off

hope it isn’t going to be in the time naruto throws FRS , Jiriaya has already summoned bunta , created 3 clones , used YN and all the other things .

Where do you scale A3's scale and why? And where do you scale 1/13th chakra clone of KCM Naruto in speed? (*Dodai)

Jiriaya uses any number of his AoE attacks to hault Naruto's approach. His fire style that's amped by Senjutsu and further amped by Toad Oil could also counteract FRS in a clash (Fire > Wind) if the jutsu is thrown perhaps. Otherwise, Toad Mobility (or Sage enhanced reflexes) will allow Jiriaya to dodge. Especially when using his guerilla warfare tactics like using smoke screens and diversions

I know people like to down play the sannin. But sorry kids, a single clone at this level isn't beating them.
 

Turrin

玄武
The Clone really only has 1 Shot to win with FRS, as it’s chakra largely gets exhausted after that and the lesser Rasengan Variants would be countered by Sage Jiriaya large SCOR. Considering Jiriaya is highly skilled and around the same speed tier; and has Katon Release, it’s very unlikely the clone lands this FRS on him; and once it fails Jiriaya wins easily.
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
Where do you scale A3's scale and why? And where do you scale 1/13th chakra clone of KCM Naruto in speed? (*Dodai)
I scale A3 faster than Jiriaya as he has better speed feats and hype. That’s what’s important here
Jiriaya uses any number of his AoE attacks to hault Naruto's approach. His fire style that's amped by Senjutsu and further amped by Toad Oil could also counteract FRS in a clash (Fire > Wind) if the jutsu is thrown perhaps. Otherwise, Toad Mobility (or Sage enhanced reflexes) will allow Jiriaya to dodge. Especially when using his guerilla warfare tactics like using smoke screens and diversions
Naruto is approaching with FRS. Nothing Jiriaya has can halt that . Hilarious for you to claim Jiraiya Katon jutsu weaker than Amaterasu would halt it . Yet in Itachi Vs naruto threads somehow Amaterasu can’t halt FRS. Do you see the double standards here . Please do not deny that you have said this multiple times . Would be easy to catch you in a lie . Guérilla tactic isn’t useful against someone who can sense your chakra though
I know people like to down play the sannin. But sorry kids, a single clone at this level isn't beating them.
It isn’t about downplay is the fact that any Sannin thread Jiriaya can always do 10 things before faster opponents use their faster attacks why is that ?


Cuz you swap Itachi with Jiriaya here and all of a sudden it would be Itachi must camp in susanoo or something along those lines Itachi can’t do 10 things or use clones .
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
I scale A3 faster than Jiriaya as he has better speed feats and hype. That’s what’s important here

Amongst those feats is Dodai who is able to react well enough to A3 in rather close range. Creating a diversion and buying time for Naruto. And although Naruto landed his attack, it was in CqC ( where Jiraiya typically fights mid range), and A3 doesn't use the same tactics as Jiriaya and Naruto had a tough time doing so nonetheless.

I mean we have other instances where KCM Naruto (1/13th) isn't instantly flash blitzing people with FRS. Take 3T Itachi for example, or Black Zetsu and the fact that he was apparently killed (his clones) in other parts of the battlefield

Naruto is approaching with FRS. Nothing Jiriaya has can halt that . Hilarious for you to claim Jiraiya Katon jutsu weaker than Amaterasu would halt it . Yet in Itachi Vs naruto threads somehow Amaterasu can’t halt FRS. Do you see the double standards here . Please do not deny that you have said this multiple times . Would be easy to catch you in a lie.

I'm not playing this game with you. Fire counters wind. I acknowledge that significant differences in jutsu rank this can be overcome, but when amped twice (once by Senjutsu and again with Toad Oil), the argument stands that Fire in this instance may indeed negate FRS

Jiriaya can halt Narutos approach with Yomi Numa and smoke screen. He isn't the same sensor when in KCM (especially as a clone).

Guérilla tactic isn’t useful against someone who can sense your chakra though

KCM iirc has negative emotion sensing. And I think that was only in the anime. Certainly not something KCM 1 displayed on the same level as Sage Mode.

It isn’t about downplay is the fact that any Sannin thread Jiriaya can always do 10 things before faster opponents use their faster attacks why is that ?


Cuz you swap Itachi with Jiriaya here and all of a sudden it would be Itachi must camp in susanoo or something along those lines Itachi can’t do 10 things or use clones .

Again, not playing this game with you. Stick to this topic.
 
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MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
Amongst those feats is Dodai who is able to react well enough to A3 in rather close range. Creating a diversion and buying time for Naruto.
Ok which still doesn’t discount A3. All it shows is dodai will also easily react to Jiriaya
I'm not playing this game with you. Fire counters wind. I acknowledge that significant differences in jutsu rank this can be overcome, but when amped twice (once by Senjutsu and again with Toad Oil), the argument stands that Fire in this instance may indeed negate FRS
So you admit to double standards then . See in a thread shortly where you change your tune
Jiriaya can halt Narutos approach with Yomi Numa and smoke screen. He isn't the same sensor when in KCM (especially as a clone).
So YN a jutsu slower than something animal path could react to from behind will happen quicker than naruto can move and throw FRS alright . Lol
KCM iirc has negative emotion sensing. And I think that was only in the anime. Certainly not something KCM 1 displayed.



Again, not playing this game with you. Stick to this topic.
I am questioning your double standards though hard to stick to the topic when you change your tune depending on the character . But I’ll leave it here and ask it on another .
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
Ok which still doesn’t discount A3. All it shows is dodai will also easily react to Jiriaya

This is your issue.

Rather than coming to a conclusion that Jiraiya can then react to A3 (in SM especially) because we see a no hype Jounin do so as well, you just assume this normal Jounin is on par with Sage Mode enhanced Jiraiya.

If this doesn't speak loudly that you are the problem and that you underrate the Sannin (rather than the Sannin being overrated) I do not know what does.

You're dishonest as one can be.
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
This is your issue.

Rather than coming to a conclusion that Jiraiya can then react to A3 (in SM especially) because we see a no hype Jounin do so as well, you just assume this normal Jounin is on par with Sage Mode enhanced Jiraiya.
:facepalmed
I have never said Jiriaya can’t react to A3 you dull soul. Pull up any thread I always say Jiriaya beats A3 . Don’t let the reeh cause you lie here .
MY POINT IS SIMPLE IF DODAI CAN REACT TO A3 HE CAN TO A SLOWER JIRAIYA . This has nothing to do with Jiriaya ability to react to A3 as I never questioned that
If this doesn't speak loudly that you are the problem and that you underrate the Sannin (rather than the Sannin being overrated) I do not know what does.

You're dishonest as one can be.
See above

and attempt removing Sannin jizz from your eyes to read properly
Not once have I claimed Jiriaya can’t react to A3
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
:facepalmed
I have never said Jiriaya can’t react to A3 you dull soul. Pull up any thread I always say Jiriaya beats A3 . Don’t let the reeh cause you lie here .
MY POINT IS SIMPLE IF DODAI CAN REACT TO A3 HE CAN TO A SLOWER JIRAIYA . This has nothing to do with Jiriaya ability to react to A3 as I never questioned that

See above

and attempt removing Sannin jizz from your eyes to read properly
Not once have I claimed Jiriaya can’t react to A3

> Your premis here is to use A3 as a standing point for the clones (1/13th) KCM's speed.

> I suggest that A3 is far from being beyond SM Jiraiya in terms of speed due to Dodai's own feats against him

> You then switch this argument to mean something entirely irrelevant 😴🙄

You're going in circles with your arguments and making zero progress.

Furthermore you tend to ignore the low end showings of the KCM clones. Like against Zetsu who Chojuro beat. And 3T Itachi making casual hand swaps with him.

Also, you've made no progress against my arguments that Jiraiya can deal with FRS.

Jiriaya isn't losing here and all your crying (reeh) doesn't change that.

:catshrug
 
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MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
> Your premis here is to use A3 as a standing point for the clones (1/13th) KCM's speed.

> I suggest that A3 is far from being beyond SM Jiraiya in terms of speed due to Dodai's own feats against him

> You then switch this argument to mean something entirely irrelevant 😴🙄

You're going in circles with your arguments and making zero progress.

Furthermore you tend to ignore the low end showings of the KCM clones. Like against Zetsu who Chojuro beat. And 3T Itachi making casual hand swaps with him.

Also, you've made no progress against my arguments that Jiraiya can deal with FRS.

Jiriaya isn't losing here and all your crying (reeh) doesn't change that.

:catshrug
You clearly can’t read
And you are still yet to show anything that indicates Jiriaya is faster
Dodai reacting to A3 doesn’t make Jiraiya faster than A3

you free to tackle that
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
You clearly can’t read
And you are still yet to show anything that indicates Jiriaya is faster
Dodai reacting to A3 doesn’t make Jiraiya faster than A3

you free to tackle that


Ok...

Dodai reacts (casually) to A3.

My argument is that if Dodai can, so could SM Jiraiya.

That's it.

Now what else do you got?
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
Ok...

Dodai reacts (casually) to A3.

My argument is that if Dodai can, so could SM Jiraiya.

That's it.

Now what else do you got?
For fuck sake dimwit

HAVE I EVER CLAIMED JIRAIYA COULDNT react to A3. If so please quote me

What does this have to do with naruto who tagged A3 before he could do much of anything ? A3 could just about avoid and got tagged fast

now you are free to answer my question

what feat does Jiriaya have to show he is faster than A3. And please don’t be dense being able to react to someone doesn’t make you physically faster else jugo >A4 in speed
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
For fuck sake dimwit

HAVE I EVER CLAIMED JIRAIYA COULDNT react to A3. If so please quote me

What does this have to do with naruto who tagged A3 before he could do much of anything ? A3 could just about avoid and got tagged fast

now you are free to answer my question

what feat does Jiriaya have to show he is faster than A3. And please don’t be dense being able to react to someone doesn’t make you physically faster else jugo >A4 in speed

:facepalmed

I've asked you earlier where do you place KCM Naruto's (1/13th) clone in speed.

You didn't answer that directly but instead spoke of A3's speed (Check your posts kid).

So I am under the assumption that we are using A3's speed here to discuss.

And it is important to a degree because A3 was able to able to avoid FRS twice in CqC before being hit the 3rd attempt.

With Jiraiya's fighting style, SM enhanced reflexes, diversions, smoke screens and of course Senjutsu Gamayu Endan among other things like Goemon he wins and will be able to avoid being hit by FRS
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
:facepalmed

I've asked you earlier where do you place KCM Naruto's (1/13th) clone in speed.

You didn't answer that directly but instead spoke of A3's speed (Check your posts kid).

So I am under the assumption that we are using A3's speed here to discuss.
Sure and A3 speed > Jiriaya
Which has little to do with Jiriaya ability to react to A3 . Learn how to think
And it is important to a degree because A3 was able to able to avoid FRS twice in CqC before being hit the 3rd attempt.
All A3 could do was avoid is the point . He couldn’t do anything else and got smacked with his back turned . So why would a slower ninja suddenly be able to pull off jutsu and of course always do 10 things before the faster ninja can smack them with the faster easier to access jutsu ?
With Jiraiya's fighting style, SM enhanced reflexes, diversions, smoke screens and of course Senjutsu Gamayu Endan among other things like Goemon he wins and will be able to avoid being hit by FRS
So again what diversions or smoke screams are being used . Smoke screen against KCm is entirely pointless for one
SEnjutsu Yu endan would imply he can summon bunta all before naruto js able to get behind him

to which Jiriaya hilariously lacks the feats to suggest

so Jiraiya can avoid a guided missile by an opponent who is physically faster than him. It’s interesting how you think though . Because all these 10 steps ahead diversions would certainly have been useful in taking down comically slower paths of pain without needing to turn tail and run to set up genjutsu
 

Isaiah13000

Father and Son
As I've been arguing with others in another recent thread, his clones are extremely overrated and this is more proof of that. Its done nothing on its own to indicate it can beat SM Jiraiya, it landing Rasenshuriken is its literal only hope and that is unlikely to happen given Jiraiya can combat him easily from afar to stop him from getting close: considering Jiraiya has many long-range AoE jutsu and it has none aside from Rasenshuriken.
 
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