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Can Vector Manipulation used to trigger nuclear reaction or convert mass to energy?

ShoSho

Well-Known Member
Can Vector Manipulation used to trigger nuclear reaction or convert mass to energy?

Not necessarily about exclusively Vector control from Toaru used by Accel.

But mostly about his version, yes. But if there is any Vector manipulator greater than he is, then they are welcome in this thread.

1. So, assuming Vector Manipulation work at subatomic level, can he use it on Uranium-235, then alter direction of subatomic particle inside to unleash the binding energy into super big thermonuclear boom?

In Kagaku no Accelerator manga, he can unleash air expansion to control temperature all he likes. I think this falls under Molecular Deceleration/Acceleration.

In the same manga, he can convert existing vector (which vector? Gravitational pull? Buoyancy? Idk) into 'Attraction' and amplify it (increase its value?) so it has an effect that attract/suck everything around it like a black hole.

2. So, again, in theory, can Vector Manipulator who can go into subatomic use this 'convert ____ vector into 'Attraction Force vector'' to induce nuclear Fusion to make small miniature sun?

3. Can Vector Manipulator somehow Replicate Annihilation Reaction without use of antimatter? Can they cause Matter to Energy conversion? If so, how? They only alter direction and magnitude, they cannot magically turn particles (with mass) into light (massless) particles
 

Irradiance

Slightly Above Average
1. Yes, just split the nucleus
2. Yes, just push the nuclei together
3. In principle yes, kinda, as you could create controlled pair creation (by, for example, splitting protons) and use the anti-matter created from that to do it.


However, this being theoretically possible doesn't mean that Accelerator can do it.
 

ShoSho

Well-Known Member
@butcher50 No I havent

@Irradiance Actually, regarding subatomic thingies. I just read that you actually cannot measure exact position of electron. There is only 'possible positions'.

Which means, as far as vector is concerned... Subatomic particles doesn't actually have vector that can be manipulated?

But Personal Reality explicitly said to ignore Uncertainty Principle which governs something like electron.

I think Accelerator even said that his manipulation of Last Order brain signals is equal to to 'electron-scale microscope'.

Hmm, so does subatomic particles have 'vector' or not...

Also, fair enough about Accelerator may not be able to do it even if theoretically possible.

About temperature manipulation in Kagaku manga. It isn't something as fancy as Molecular deceleration it seems. Accelerator just expand the air which lowers the temperature.

Expanding air = Lower pressure, thus freeze
Compressing air = Higher pressure, thus hot

Nothing molecular about it :(
 

butcher50

Well-Known Member
Basically there is a villain (Shaw or something) with powers somewhat similar to ToAru-verse Accelerator (but nowhere near as OP limitless/creative) and he does try pulling something off with a nuclear reactor.
 
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ShoSho

Well-Known Member
@butchee50 Ah, thank you for the reccommendation then. I'll look it up later.

Anyway, back to electron scale. Actually, it seems Accelerator can manipulate it even in Particle Waveform state. He need to adjust his equations for it though. But he can even convert/amplify it to utterly annihilate something. But in the first place, Meltdowner Particle Waveform already has atomic destruction properties, so its hardly Accelerator doing all the work.
Spoiler: Shinyaku Toaru majutsu no Index Vol. 6 Chapter 7 Part 9

“Use this,” said Mugino from next to him. “This is your job.”

In the next instant, a beam of light shot from Mugino Shizuri’s palm and headed straight for Accelerator. That Particle-Function Waveform High Speed Cannon was powerful enough to slice an Aegis ship in half. If any disturbance had existed in the #1’s reflection equations, he might have been turned to ash without even having time to feel pain.

But that did not happen.

He made sure of it.

“…”

Accelerator accurately grasped the vectors of that attack. He adjusted and focused the vectors to give them new form and properties. And then he used it to attack all three of the attacking girls at once.

Sound disappeared.

There was only light.

This went beyond simply piercing through them or roasting them. They disappeared. Not even a single piece or 1 mm fragment remained. They were truly annihilated.


So maybe I was wrong in my assumption, and Irradiance's plan may actually work. Given the Vector Manipulator is powerful enough to do so.
 

shieldbounce

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A lot of the time, abilities such as vector manipulation and subatomic manipulation (which is more or less needed to convert things to energy, or cause nuclear reactions) are classified as separate abilities, depending on how these abilities are presented to the audience when they are showcased.

For example, if vector manipulation only involves canceling out, or changing the direction of objects that are moving in a specific direction, then it's not correct to assume that the same ability can also be used to perform a different ability.

@ShoSho As for the Accelerator example that you mentioned, what is the Particle-Function Waveform High Speed Cannon (is it some sort of energy beam, I dunno) and how does that attack actually work?

But from reading the description of Accelerator stopping and redirecting it, he might have just used his vector manipulation ability to nullify the kinetic energy (or the concept of its "movement", if kinetic energy does not apply), changed the shape of the attack that was received, and returned the attack back to the original users.

In this case? You could argue that Accelerator's vector manipulation was used to convert the particles contained within the high-speed cannon into pure energy (or light), and returned the attack that way, but only because the part of the chapter you quoted directly explained it as such.
 

Rev97

Well-Known Member
@shieldbounce Description of Mugino’s Meltdowner

That was Meltdowner.

The technical classification was Particle Waveform High-Speed Cannon.

Unlike the #3 Railgun, she was a Level 5 who manipulated electrons without using waves or particles.

Plus Accelerator was controlling Kakine’s Dark Matter, which existed as small as elementary particles

“Elementary particles are things even tinier than molecules and atoms. We know that there exist gauge bosons, leptons, and quarks. There are also hadrons which are made when antiparticles or quarks gather, but, well, they're all divided into a few general categories. These elementary particles make up the world.”

“However,” said Kakine in a soft voice, “That kind of common knowledge does not apply to my Dark Matter!”

Boom! Accompanying gale winds, the six wings behind Kakine instantly recovered their forms.

“The Dark Matter I create is matter that does not exist in this world. It’s not matter that hasn’t yet been discovered, nor matter that theoretically exists, but rather matter which undeniably does not exist.”

A material made by an esper ability that could not be classified by science.


“This pair of black wings, Kakine had seen it before, and knew what it was.

The elementary particles that didn’t exist in this world, Dark Matter.”

This next quote is from a non-canon crossover novel though written by the author of Index anyway so it’s usable too.


“The hand not holding the modern-style cane was suddenly holding a giant scythe taller than Accelerator.

It had nothing like a sheath and it was far too large to hide.

It seemed to have simply appeared from thin air.

No.

Wait.

“You can guess what this means, right?”

“…”

“Well, if I wanted to, I could use my vector manipulation to control the electrons in your head, but if I’ve got a specialized tool, I might as well use it.”
 

ShoSho

Well-Known Member
@shieldbounce The beam is resulting from electron being manipulated to take dual properties of both particle and wave. In this 'confused state', electron beam turns to be very destructive as its supposed to be both 'solid' and 'very fast'.

Anyway, so, to do subatomic manipulation, Vector Manipulation is not enough? So just merely changing direction of individual particle is not enough? So my assumption is correct that electron scale particle does not have vector? Since Uncertainty Principle and superposition bullshit?

But it seems Esper power works by making use of quantum physics :
Spoiler: Toaru GT Vol.1

“Academy City’s esper powers have a foundation in quantum physics.

Quantum physics is useful in describing the behavior of subatomic particles like protons and electrons as well as the four fundamental forces of the strong force, the weak force, gravity, and electromagnetism, but you will almost certainly never be aware of the changes caused by the observations you make in an ordinary life. You can’t make an apple disappear by willing it to disappear, after all.

You can think of those changes like imaginary numbers – they are necessary to explain the way the world works, but you are never really aware of them. Normally, anyway."

"Academy City’s espers forcibly alter this to draw out phenomena that cannot be explained with Newtonian physics. In other words, supernatural phenomena."


And Accelerator can manipulate brain signals that is as 'small as microbit'. But is it the same as manipulating subatomic particle?
Spoiler: Toaru OT Vol.5

Right now, Accelerator was concentrating all his power on Last Order's brain signal, so he didn't even have time to 'redirect'. If he decided to multitask in his 'redirecting', he wouldn't be able to accurately manipulate the electrical signals that were as fine as the microbits in an electron microscope image, and Last Order's brain would be wrecked.


Yeah, Accelerator can probably filter out harmful fine particles using his reflection barrier (I mean, he reflect even UV Light, and just let necessary amount of light through his Reflection). But that isn't the same as actively manipulating particle's velocity and orbit. I think.

On the topic of non canon, it seems non canon crossover says Accelerator can manipulate Vector of Time :
Spoiler: Toaru × DRRRR!

The ability to trick the world, changing gravity energy into buoyancy, and in extreme cases, to manipulate the vector of time, in a limited sense.”
 

shieldbounce

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My actual thoughts on the examples that you brought up here will be posted at a later date, although all of this seems like a clear case for Accelerator's vector manipulation utilized in a way that subatomic particles can be manipulated.

So @ShoSho @Rev97 , the descriptions that you brought up regarding Accelerator's ability suggests that his vector manipulation can manipulate subatomic matter.

However, is it evidence that Accelerator can perform a nuclear reaction? It would be helpful if one of you guys checked how a nuclear reaction actually worked, and check if Accelerator's vector manipulation ability can also be used to perform the steps required to trigger one.
 
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