can current luffy really beat kizaru right now?

Pipi Longstocking said:
Kizaru is being saved for late game so he might have a very deadly awakening and skill set A weak and tired kaido beating kizaru who could be the second strongest in the C3 dosent add up. kaido was gassed out thats why he was truly done after barjang gun. he would not have enough gas in the tank to put down kizaru if he was weak and tired
Click to expand...

Kaidou wasn't just gassed out. He was knocked out, with his horn broken and possibly other broken bones. Like I said "weakened and tired" Kaidou still retains his AP so Kizaru won't be able to match Kaidou's ultimate even in that state. Even Luffy with G5 durability and yonkou level aCoC seemed like he would've been one shotted if he took Kaidou's ultimate head on. Let alone Kizaru who has neither.

Also there's a difference between being saved for late game as a subordinate and being saved as the main villain of an arc. If Kizaru fights Luffy now, he is only 1 arc removed from Kaidou who always scaled higher than him due to his portrayal.
Kizaru will more than likely still be around in the final war, as a mid level boss for one of Luffy's subordinates or allies. In fact Luffy's right hand as WSS would beat Kizaru with room to spare in the final war.
 
Last edited:
Heart Over Blade said:
Kaidou wasn't just gassed out. He was knocked out, with his horn broken and possibly other broken bones. Like I said "weakened and tired" Kaidou still retains his AP so Kizaru won't be able to match Kaidou's ultimate even in that state. Even Luffy with G5 durability and yonkou level aCoC seemed like he would've been one shotted if he took Kaidou's ultimate head on. Let alone Kizaru who has neither.

Also there's a different being saved for late game as a subordinate and being saved as the main villain of an arc. Kizaru will probably still be around in the final war, as a mid level boss for one of Luffy's subordinates or allies. In fact Luffy's right hand as WSS would beat Kizaru with room to spare in the final war.
Click to expand...
If kaido was 100 he wouldint have got knocked out he was gassed at that point and any attack with great damage by a top tier could have taken him out and i truly beleive awakend kizaru would do just that.
 
Pipi Longstocking said:
If kaido was 100 he wouldint have got knocked out he was gassed at that point and any attack with great damage by a top tier could have taken him out and i truly beleive awakend kizaru would do just that.
Click to expand...
It's true that Kaidou might've still been standing if he had more HP. However, BG still had enough power to break Kaidou's horn and therefore his skull so one BG would've been a crippling attack to take. I don't think any top tier could've taken him out with one attack though, because they'd would've had to overpower Kaidou's ultimate who still retains his attack power in that state. If they could they'd have Kaidou level AP and there's nothing to suggest Kizaru who scales below him has that.
 
Heart Over Blade said:
It's true that Kaidou might've still been standing if he had more HP. However, BG still had enough power to break Kaidou's horn and therefore his skull so one BG would've been a crippling attack to take. I don't think any top tier could've taken him out with one attack though, because they'd would've had to overpower Kaidou's ultimate who still retains his attack power in that state. If they could they'd have Kaidou level AP and there's nothing to suggest Kizaru who scales below him has that.
Click to expand...
kaidos body could have been very weakend after everything he endured so BG doing something like that isnt to impressive think of it like this if fresh kaido and fresh roofy were to clash in the same way and BG overpowered kaido do you still think it would do that much damage? I think other top tiers would for sure be abel to match that only because i know BG wont be roofys strongest attack and on top of that powercreep
 
Pipi Longstocking said:
kaidos body could have been very weakend after everything he endured so BG doing something like that isnt to impressive think of it like this if fresh kaido and fresh roofy were to clash in the same way and BG overpowered kaido do you still think it would do that much damage? I think other top tiers would for sure be abel to match that only because i know BG wont be roofys strongest attack and on top of that powercreep
Click to expand...
Kaidou losing health doesn't mean his durability drops, which is what you're suggesting when you say his bones only broke because Kaidou was weakened. There was no indication Kaidou's durability ever changed. Both Luffy and Kaidou's ultimates were capable of easily destroying Onigashima and not being stopped so yes I think an attack that eclipses all of their previous attacks in scale can reasonably do that. Luffy getting stronger attacks later on doesn't change that Blazing Bagua was Kaidou's strongest attack, at a time when Kaidou was hailed as the strongest. So most top tiers aren't going to be able to match it. Power creep doesn't mean every villain that gets taken down later is stronger than everyone who went down before them, especially if it's only 1 arc later. Kizaru isn't even stronger than MF Akainu or Oldbeard who went down hundreds of chapters ago in MF. Kizaru won't have to go through Kaidou's gauntlet so he doesn't have to be stronger than Kaidou. Kizaru is going to be a mid level boss in the final war reserved for Luffy's subordinate or ally.
 
Last edited:
Heart Over Blade said:
Kaidou losing health doesn't mean his durability drops, which is what you're suggesting when you say his bones only broke because Kaidou was weakened. There was no indication Kaidou's durability ever changed. Both Luffy and Kaidou's ultimates were capable of easily destroying Onigashima and not being stopped so yes I think an attack that eclipses all of their previous attacks in scale can reasonably do that. Luffy getting stronger attacks later on doesn't change that Blazing Bagua was Kaidou's strongest attack, at a time when Kaidou was hailed as the strongest. So most top tiers aren't going to be able to match it. Power creep doesn't mean every villain that gets taken down later is stronger than everyone who went down before them, especially if it's only 1 arc later. Kizaru isn't even stronger than MF Akainu or Oldbeard who went down hundreds of chapters ago in MF. Kizaru won't have to go through Kaidou's gauntlet so he doesn't have to be stronger than Kaidou. Kizaru is going to be a mid level boss in the final war reserved for Luffy's subordinate or ally.
Click to expand...
we dont know what plans are instored for kizaru saying hes still weaker than mf akainu or weakbeard can be summed down to pure headcannon. when your body is weak and tired it is susceptible to harsher damaged kaido could have been on the verge of broken bones from the gaulet but BG just did the trick. it was his strongest attack in his weakend and tired state. fresh kaido> weak tired kaido ultimate attack. Kaido no matter how strong he seems in a weak and tired state cant beat another top tier
 
Heart Over Blade said:
Kaidou's ultimate is still way beyond what Kizaru has shown and Kizaru would need need his Awakening just to hope to match it. But I doubt he could match it. Kaidou>Kizaru and Kaidou still retains his AP in that state due to how fights in One Piece work, as we can see when less than half stamina Kaidou managed to increase his AP beyond his previous output despite his flame clouds waning. All the highest AP attacks come at the end of a battle.
Click to expand...
To be fair Kizaru can just dodge flaming bagua. He is the fastest character in OP. Flaming bagua is relatively slow. Momo had enough time to move Onigashima out of the way after all. And dragon's movement didn't look fast at all: it slowly moved upwards, melted horn and only after it clashed with Luffy's Barjang.
 
Heart Over Blade said:
Kaidou losing health doesn't mean his durability drops, which is what you're suggesting when you say his bones only broke because Kaidou was weakened. There was no indication Kaidou's durability ever changed. Both Luffy and Kaidou's ultimates were capable of easily destroying Onigashima and not being stopped so yes I think an attack that eclipses all of their previous attacks in scale can reasonably do that. Luffy getting stronger attacks later on doesn't change that Blazing Bagua was Kaidou's strongest attack, at a time when Kaidou was hailed as the strongest. So most top tiers aren't going to be able to match it. Power creep doesn't mean every villain that gets taken down later is stronger than everyone who went down before them, especially if it's only 1 arc later. Kizaru isn't even stronger than MF Akainu or Oldbeard who went down hundreds of chapters ago in MF. Kizaru won't have to go through Kaidou's gauntlet so he doesn't have to be stronger than Kaidou. Kizaru is going to be a mid level boss in the final war reserved for Luffy's subordinate or ally.
Click to expand...
Im not saying kizaru would beat kaido in a fresh 1v1 heavens no. im saying kizaru beats tired weak kaido
 
Pipi Longstocking said:
we dont know what plans are instored for kizaru saying hes still weaker than mf akainu or weakbeard can be summed down to pure headcannon.
Click to expand...
Let's put it another way, we have still been given no reason to believe he is stronger than they are.
Pipi Longstocking said:
when your body is weak and tired it is susceptible to harsher damaged kaido could have been on the verge of broken bones from the gaulet but BG just did the trick. it was his strongest attack in his weakend and tired state. fresh kaido> weak tired kaido ultimate attack. Kaido no matter how strong he seems in a weak and tired state cant beat another top tier
Click to expand...
Being tired doesn't mean taking more damage from the same attack. We were not given any indication whatsoever that his horn was on the verge of breaking. If Oda wanted to convey that he could've added a fracture or two. Also
let's not forget that Luffy's BG had its momentum stopped by Kaidou's own ultimate, meaning if Kaidou took it clean without reducing its momentum it'd hit much harder.

We don't know that a fresh Kaidou's ultimate would've been stronger. That's not how One Piece fights work. That's why Kaidou at less than half stamina could hit harder than when he did with more stamina using a generic headbutt, despite using aCoC the whole time. If you want to use the assumption that Kaidou could've hit harder then you'd also have to accept that an exhausted near death Luffy's BG was nowhere near his best either.
Corax said:
To be fair Kizaru can just dodge flaming bagua. He is the fastest character in OP. Flaming bagua is relatively slow. Momo had enough time to move Onigashima out of the way after all. And dragon's movement didn't look fast at all: it slowly moved upwards, melted horn and only after it clashed with Luffy's Barjang.
Click to expand...
Momo had enough time to move Onigashima because of Luffy. Kaidou wasn't even aiming at Onigashima. Dragon Kaidou was fast enough to dodge G4 Snakeman's barrage, and being larger while maintaining the same proportion allows you to cover even more distance. At minimum he is as fast as aCoC FS G4 Snakeman.
 
Last edited:
Heart Over Blade said:
Let's put it another way, we have still been given no reason to believe he is stronger than they are.

Being tired doesn't mean taking more damage from the same attack. We were not given any indication whatsoever that his horn was on the verge of breaking. If Oda wanted to convey that he could've added a fracture or two. Also
let's not forget that Luffy's BG had its momentum stopped by Kaidou's own ultimate, meaning if Kaidou took it clean without reducing its momentum it'd hit much harder.

We don't know that a fresh Kaidou's ultimate would've been stronger. That's not how One Piece fights work. That's why Kaidou at less than half stamina could hit harder than when he did with more stamina using a generic headbutt, despite using aCoC the whole time. If you want to use the assumption that Kaidou could've hit harder then you'd also have to accept that an exhausted near death Luffy's BG was nowhere near his best either.
Click to expand...
If your tired and weak your ultimate attack is most likely going to be weaker than if your fresh especialy if its a physical attack and yes i do think a fresh roofy BG gun would be stronger he was gassed out after that punch. Yes but kaido wasnt just tired he was weakend also and was getting hit hard prior BG hit. his bones were not in the best condition to tank an attack like that. What puts aokiji above kizaru? kizaru is the only C3 who has not taken a true loss
 
Duhul10 said:
has Kizaru beaten anyone close to 50% of Luffy's level ever ?
Click to expand...
Who knows? But Green Bull was able to overpower Weevil and Weevil was stated to have the physical stats of a Young Whitebeard, so it's safe to assume that Kizaru is strong enough to beat someone at 50% of Luffy's level. Very comfortably.
 
Lee-Sensei said:
Who knows? But Green Bull was able to overpower Weevil and Weevil was stated to have the physical stats of a Young Whitebeard, so it's safe to assume that Kizaru is strong enough to beat someone at 50% of Luffy's level. Very comfortably.
Click to expand...
Weevil is a featless fraud and GB was not alone

Luffy shits weevil
 
Duhul10 said:
Weevil is a featless fraud and GB was not alone

Luffy shits weevil
Click to expand...
Kaido was featless until Dressrossa, yet portrayal and hype matters. If someone is stated to be equivalent to a young Whitebeard in physical stats, he's obviously powerful. And there's ZERO evidence that Ryokuyu didn't solo Weevil. You're coping. Come back to reality, my friend.
 
Lee-Sensei said:
Kaido was featless until Dressrossa, yet portrayal and hype matters. If someone is stated to be equivalent to a young Whitebeard in physical stats, he's obviously powerful. And there's ZERO evidence that Ryokuyu didn't solo Weevil. You're coping. Come back to reality, my friend.
Click to expand...
Featless fraud <<<<<<<<<< featless

What do you mean there is ZERO evidence Lbull didn't solo the fraud? He had a goddamn entire ship with him.
 
Duhul10 said:
Featless fraud <<<<<<<<<< featless

What do you mean there is ZERO evidence Lbull didn't solo the fraud? He had a goddamn entire ship with him.
Click to expand...
Zero evidence that Weevil is a fraud. He lost to an Admiral. There's no shame in that. All we know is that GB captured Weevil. You've assumed that nameless fodder played a role in that capture, when we have no evidence of that. An Admiral capturing a Warlord or Commander level character on his own is not at all unbelievable.
 
Lee-Sensei said:
Zero evidence that Weevil is a fraud. He lost to an Admiral. There's no shame in that. All we know is that GB captured Weevil. You've assumed that nameless fodder played a role in that capture, when we have no evidence of that. An Admiral capturing a Warlord or Commander level character on his own is not at all unbelievable.
Click to expand...
Not saying it is unbelievable, just that we know for sure GB was not alone. Weevil being a fraud was confirmed by him crying like a little bitch after being captured, this aside from his obvious gag design.

So it is upon you to bring evidence that in spite of GB bringing backup, they remained on the ship, which is contrary to logic.
 
He could beat him, depending on which one is goofier

:Kappa

On serious Note,

Kaido should still high-extreme or lower extreme diff. current Luffy in a fresh 1v1.

Kizaru should be also there giving Kaido high-extreme or lower extreme diff.

Difficult to say, I dunno.
 
Captain Altintop said:
He could beat him, depending on which one is goofier

:Kappa

On serious Note,

Kaido should still high-extreme or lower extreme diff. current Luffy in a fresh 1v1.

Kizaru should be also there giving Kaido high-extreme or lower extreme diff.

Difficult to say, I dunno.
Click to expand...
the one guy up there said weak tired kaido can beat kizaru i admit im a kaido fan but even i know thats just not true!
 
Imo, it's extreme diff either way for me.
 
Why do you guys think Luffy got fs and snakeman for?
It was to fight against top speedsters (especially if they have fs too)

He got adcoc & adcoa for tanky fighters like BM and Kaido. Power was lacking

For Admirals & Katakuri. It wasn't power ..just speed and CoO to land hits on them consecutively

G2/G3 ~< Old Legends
G4 =< Oden >~ Admirals
G5 ~ Shanks/ Teach
 
Duhul10 said:
Not saying it is unbelievable, just that we know for sure GB was not alone. Weevil being a fraud was confirmed by him crying like a little bitch after being captured, this aside from his obvious gag design.

So it is upon you to bring evidence that in spite of GB bringing backup, they remained on the ship, which is contrary to logic.
Click to expand...
Let me be clear. There's ZERO reason to believe that GB had help in beating Weevil. All we know is that Ryokugyu beat him and took him away.

Weevil crying doesn't make him a fraud either. He's a mental midget with halfwit strength. No. The burden of proof is absolutely on you. 100%. All we know is that Green Bull came to capture Weevil and he wasn't holding back. There's no reason to think an Admiral would need help for this. Your bias is clouding your judgement.
 
Heart Over Blade said:
Momo had enough time to move Onigashima because of Luffy. Kaidou wasn't even aiming at Onigashima. Dragon Kaidou was fast enough to dodge G4 Snakeman's barrage, and being larger while maintaining the same proportion allows you to cover even more distance. At minimum he is as fast as aCoC FS G4 Snakeman.
Click to expand...
This particular attack wasn't fast at all to be fair. Luffy had enough time to warn Momo and order him to move Onigashima and entire attack sequence lasted several pages.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom