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A new debate style idea

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
It's safe to say a lot of us are very busy people - I'm literally in class and writing a response paper as I write this very post. A lot of us work, study, and care for others. Even if we aren't busy right now, we don't necessarily have a lot of free time on our hands for other things and need to spend the time we have wisely.

So I (not even I really, it's Turrin and Reddan) have an idea for a new debate style - a quick debate style, based on Turrin's debate with Reddan.

You can find it here:

Basically, the two debaters engage over two competing characters, and go back and forth one point at a time until one concedes or both agree it's gone on too long.

Thoughts? :hm

@MaruUchiha @Code @FlamingRain @LostSelf @Lyren @t0xeus @MShadows @Zembie @Sloan @Mawt @Halcyonite
 

Sloan

~*Supa Stacka*~
It is interesting but issa no for me.

Go back and forth on a single point 10 different times? Than go back and forth on another point another 10 times?

So If I have 10 points in a post about a match up or some Naruto concept I'ma be at a 100 posts.

I can't even be arsed to reply after like 1-2 posts now a days let alone just illustrating one point out of 10 a bunch of times.
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
It is interesting but issa no for me.

Go back and forth on a single point 10 different times? Than go back and forth on another point another 10 times?

So If I have 10 points in a post about a match up or some Naruto concept I'ma be at a 100 posts.

I can't even be arsed to reply after like 1-2 posts now a days let alone just illustrating one point out of 10 a bunch of times.

Fair. How about fewer than 10 points max? 7? 5?

You don't need to dedicate a lot of time to any individual reply either, that could help.
 

Mawt

Well-Known Member
I feel like a better idea would be if both posters are limited to 200 words per response. That way, the debate doesn't get too long and it also cuts off a lot of unnecessary bulk. It would also test the skill of the debaters (being able to make a solid argument with as few words as possible). And as you noted, people are busy. Those 1500 word essays just don't cut it anymore :blobsad
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
I feel like a better idea would be if both posters are limited to 200 words per response. That way, the debate doesn't get too long and it also cuts off a lot of unnecessary bulk. It would also test the skill of the debaters (being able to make a solid argument with as few words as possible). And as you noted, people are busy. Those 1500 word essays just don't cut it anymore :blobsad

Good idea. 300 can be good too.
 
I think limiting post left and the amount of posts would make it interesting

like as proposed above a 300 word count and maybe 2-3 post each
 

Halcyonite

Well-Known Member
I like the idea of it. It prevents long convoluted debates where you end up having to repeat the same points once or twice, and strawmanning too, in a way.

Putting a word limit on the posts is a good improvement as the others have suggested.
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
I think limiting post left and the amount of posts would make it interesting

like as proposed above a 300 word count and maybe 2-3 post each

Agreed. Limiting post quantity could be great and force people to avoid dilatory tactic.

I like the idea of it. It prevents long convoluted debates where you end up having to repeat the same points once or twice, and strawmanning too, in a way.

Putting a word limit on the posts is a good improvement as the others have suggested.

Yep.
 

Ishmael

I'm not impressed.
Sounds nice.

But I’ve only came across like 5 posters who’d concede a single point in their argument so for them to concede entirely? Asking for to much. These guys here argue just because, not to truly debate and come out with a changed perspective or at least swayed one.
 

Troyse22

Shuts down the Sannin camp
It's safe to say a lot of us are very busy people - I'm literally in class and writing a response paper as I write this very post. A lot of us work, study, and care for others. Even if we aren't busy right now, we don't necessarily have a lot of free time on our hands for other things and need to spend the time we have wisely.

So I (not even I really, it's Turrin and Reddan) have an idea for a new debate style - a quick debate style, based on Turrin's debate with Reddan.

You can find it here:

Basically, the two debaters engage over two competing characters, and go back and forth one point at a time until one concedes or both agree it's gone on too long.

Thoughts? :hm

@MaruUchiha @Code @FlamingRain @LostSelf @Lyren @t0xeus @MShadows @Zembie @Sloan @Mawt @Halcyonite

Fits right into @Turrin debate style which is "repeat the same disproven points over and over and then when the other person gets annoyed and leaves i'll say I won"
 
Sounds nice.

But I’ve only came across like 5 posters who’d concede a single point in their argument so for them to concede entirely? Asking for to much. These guys here argue just because, not to truly debate and come out with a changed perspective or at least swayed one.
I think it’s all about willingness at the end of the day and setting an example

In the spirit of this I’m will willing start this if anyone is up for it
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
Sounds nice.

But I’ve only came across like 5 posters who’d concede a single point in their argument so for them to concede entirely? Asking for to much. These guys here argue just because, not to truly debate and come out with a changed perspective or at least swayed one.

You can debate for the benefit of the audience, not necessarily to convince the other side.

I think it’s all about willingness at the end of the day and setting an example

In the spirit of this I’m will willing start this if anyone is up for it

Go for it!
 

Turrin

玄武
Fits right into @Turrin debate style which is "repeat the same disproven points over and over and then when the other person gets annoyed and leaves i'll say I won"
lol coming from someone whose entire debate style is based on double standards relating to back scaling this is a compliment
 
Maru vs Lewdman.

Spoiler:
Jk lol :mjlol

Deidara vs Sasori? :hm

Maru mid diff

Lewdman will trigger Maru by trolling about Obito and the Founders but this will backfire ending in Lewdmans destruction.

Deidara vs Sasori

Sasori only has to be right once due to his poison and Deidara has a nasty knack of being reckless Satetsu defense is capable of dealing with most of Deidara’s low-mid offense and while Deidara’s high level stuff is the more impressive of the two , IC they’ll appear in the Late fight and I think Sasori will poison him before then.

Mid-high diff for the Puppet Master
 
Also I think segmenting battles in Early/Mid/Late sections will account for IC strats as ninja rarely if ever use thier best moves early instead of gradually escalating throughout battle
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
Tagging Deidara will be the hard part.

Sakura at least physically reacted to Sasori's fastest Iron Sand attacks (which have far better speed feats and portrayal than Hiruko given that Chiyo and Sakura more or less curbstomped the former but had noticeable issues with IS) by adopting a blocking posture, whereas she couldn't even see BOS Sasuke move in her direction from a considerable height and distance away - even wondering when he moved.

Deidara, in contrast, physically reacted to Hebi Sasuke's Shunshin (Hebi being >/= BOS as we know Sasuke continued to train and amaze Orochimaru with feats) and evaded Hebi Sasuke outright once - and that was on foot. He even managed to create a C1 smokescreen to cover his escape and create distance. And that's all just on foot - he's even harder to hit in the sky where he's more mobile and can fire back hard.

As Sasori starts with Hiruko, he simply won't be able to touch Deidara at all before the latter creates a clay dragon or owl and takes flight. From there Deidara easily weaves around Hiruko's projectiles and blows him to smithereens with C2.

And thus concludes the Early part of the fight.

@Grinningfox Do you want to go into scans? :hm
 
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trocollo

Well-Known Member
Great idea! I agree completely.

@Beyonce @Speedyamell @trocollo Tagging y'all for your opinions on the idea, not the matchup though.
Legit didn't get notified lol, anyway it's a likeable idea yeah, may not work all the times cause isn't unusual for points to be connected, so in the proving of a point can happen that another one is created, in the end it's in the choice of the debaters to how to order their discussion, for example it happened sometimes that from seeing how big responses were becoming, I asked to divide them in topics and clear them in order, cause when things start to get really big it's easy to create confusion and forget what is being trying to prove, which leads to one side having to lose time into requoting all the precendent responses to remember the other side what the point was about, and I'm really tired of doing that XD
 

Zembie

In a perpetual state of loneliness and alcohol
I think I have a "better" idea, make a new thread, the same as the challenger arena, the same rules tho here's the twist, 300-400 words per post (clear and concise), 1 judge that isn't required to give a detailed explanation (200 words max), and 2 responses. I like the idea for a new debating style but the free-debating style we have right now is hard to change from (For me at least) not to mention that not everyone will be in on the idea. A shorter, more lax challenger arena might do the trick, especially since if the style you're talking about would be implemented, i'd still lead to (MOSTLY) 2 posters going back and forth. Easier to set disputes and without much of a hassle, also a judge who isn't forced to write a detailed explanation will lead to more judges appearing as well. Just an idea tho, yours is great also but I don't see the NBD going for it, since a lot of people are stubborn or just don't care.
 

~Kakashi~

Well-Known Member
Ideas are all cool and fine, but I think the failure for people to complete debates just has far more to do with how lazy people are with posting.

We've all been discussing this manga for years. You(using "you" as a general term here, not speaking anyone specific) know what arguments you want to provide. You know the exact chapter each feat happened in to grab scans(or if you are unsure on one, basic googling skills will find it for you). We can all type at at least reasonable speeds. 1000 words or 1500 words takes an hour or so, at absolute most, and that's including the time it takes to go and grab whatever scans you want. And despite being given multiples days to even weeks to complete these posts in some cases, people still just wouldn't get them done in the tournament FlamingRain started/Soul and I carried on. In a Itachi vs SM Naruto debate I participated in in that tournament, despite the fact that I practically never debate indepth for or against Itachi and my knowledge of SM Naruto going in to it was kinda iffy, from start to finish my 1,000 word post took me less than an hour to complete, and I know if I'm capable of that, literally everyone on here interested in more formal debates is too, as I'm easily one of the least knowledgeable and worst debaters among this group. Most here are far better/smarter than me and should be capable of completing posts far faster than I can.

Then we go on to see even with this challenge arena the problem still largely remains, even with no real cutoff date for posts to be made because everyone here is generally kind and willing to wait however long is needed. It just boils down to people not caring enough/not wanting to debate enough to get it done.

If you can't compose a 1,000 word post over 3-4 day time(and again far longer than that in the challenge arena debates) span due to how busy you are, you probably are too busy to be posting on a forum period.

It's unfortunate, but I suppose interest in this was bound to die off eventually.
 

Mad Scientist

Skyclad Observer
I'm easily one of the least knowledgeable and worst debaters among this group. Most here are far better/smarter than me and should be capable of completing posts far faster than I can.
Also ~Kakashi~:
1000 words or 1500 words takes an hour or so, at absolute most, and that's including the time it takes to go and grab whatever scans you want.
:hmm

We both know you're at least among the really good debaters.

If you can't compose a 1,000 word post over 3-4 day time(and again far longer than that in the challenge arena debates) span due to how busy you are, you probably are too busy to be posting on a forum period.
Generally speaking, I agree. You will even find that the same people (myself included) that spend time a significant chunk of time on NF, in some way or another, sometimes claim to be too busy. There's no doubt people are at times busy, but – and this is mostly true in real life – "busyness" is merely a façade.

On the other hand, sometimes debates genuinely do take longer than 3-4 days (e.g. my recent debate necessitated, I felt, hours of time to draw up a parallel between one specific thing).
 
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