So commonly I have seen across battle forums that Hunter/Prey Doomsday is considered a big deal, usually due to three reasons:
  • The notion that he was called a "multi-dimensional threat" by Dan Jurgens in an interview
  • His handed victory over Darkseid on Apokolipse itself.
  • Him surviving "The entropy at the end of the universe"
I will go over these three reasons and explain why I don't think these hold ground for Hunter/Prey Doomsday. In fact, i'd argue H/P Doomsday is one of the weakest incarnations of Doomsday.

So I will start with the interview, I guess.

It comes from an interview between Dan Jurgens (Author of Hunter/Prey) and Richard 'rc' Caponetti on February 9, 2004. Here is the link:

In this interview, they discuss and compare the powers of Thor, Superman, Darkseid, and Doomsday mostly. In it, Jurens says this:

We needed Doomsday to defeat Darkseid for people to understand that Doomsday was a multi-dimensional threat.

I will get to the Thor stuff later, because that IMO is the killing blow to the interview, but for one thing, just going to say, without further elaboration, "multidimensional" threat has several meanings. Majin Buu is a multi-dimensional threat, technically. He did attack the afterlife alongside the mortal realm, but he obviously isn't universal or anything. We know Doomsday's modus operandi; it isn't destroying the planets he attacks. It is explained in both Hunter/Prey and in Doomsday Annual #1 that Doomsday would lifewipe planets and then find a means to go to the next planet. That Doomsday managed to reach the Fourth World with its motherbox and boom tube technology, guaranteed that once he goes off-world he will have means to go greater distances across the cosmos, likely to other dimensions to terrorize.

Furthemore, the interview actualy expands on and explains the Darkseid vs Doomsday stuff. It's established Doomsday is physically far stronger than Darkseid, and that Darkseid would more often win when he has a plan:

RC: And now we come to another "god issue" that sometimes angers people: Darkseid, Doomsday and Superman in Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey. Darkseid really seemed to get bludgeoned by Doomsday, like he had no chance against Doomsday. In the Doomsday: Year One annual, however, it seemed like Darkseid would have had somewhat of an equality with Doomsday. Was it your intention to show Doomsday as, like, orders above Darkseid in Hunter/Prey?

DAN JURGENS: It's funny, but somebody emailed me about this not too long ago.

RC: I saw that email on the Web.

DAN JURGENS: The idea that we were trying to portray is the natural immunity that Doomsday would develop toward whoever he was fighting. In such case, it becomes very hard for Darkseid to defeat him.

My answer to that question in general is that . . . you take Doomsday, you take Darkseid, you put them in a pit and have them fight it out to death. If you do that ten times, you're looking at a five-five or six-four split.

RC: Some people got the impression from Hunter/Prey that Darkseid could never win against Doomsday.

DAN JURGENS: I think that on that one given time [in Hunter/Prey] . . . yes, but I also think that Darkseid is a smart guy. (Laughs).

RC: What if you threw Darkseid in that pit with no preparation or anything like that?

DAN JURGENS: Because of brute power and the natural immunity that Doomsday genetically develops, Doomsday has the advantage. But my theory is that the next time they fight, Darkseid knows that he's been defeated and takes countermeasures.

RC: So, in your opinion, if Darkseid fought Doomsday without employing technology and strategy, Doomsday would win every time?

DAN JURGENS: Yes. Right.

So it's plainly established Doomsday is stronger, but that is because Jurgens doesn't imagine Darksied as a bruiser in the first place:

RC: All right . . . another Darkseid/Superman question: If Superman got hit with the Omega Effect like Doomsday did in Hunter/Prey, would he have survived it like Doomsday did?

DAN JURGENS: Yes. Yeah. I've always had the pretty profound conviction that if Superman got hit by the Omega Effect, that he would survive.

RC: Do you believe, then, that Darkseid is far less powerful than Superman-that it is Darkseid's political machinations and his dangerous mind that makes him a threat to Superman, not his power?


Jurgens' interpretation of Darkseid isn't one that could physically manhandle Superman, but one who is conniving and strategic, thus giving him the advantage over Superman. His power itself isn't supremely impressive. But here is one thing we must also keep in mind; how strong did Jurgens see Superman at the Hunter/Prey then?

We actually have a transitively implicit answer from this Interview somewhat. As I noted, he compared Thor to these characters too, and Jurgens has a... lower end interpretation for the God of Thunder:

RC: Most comic book godly character never live up to their hype?

DAN JURGENS: No, they don't. And I will say that it has been something of a surprise that when I do con appearances, people say to me about the Odin-power, "Well, gee . . . you screwed it up." And I say, "Well, what was it before?" And when you get into that conversation you realize that-you know what? If I talk to ten different people, I get ten different opinions on what is the potential of the Odin-power.

So, let's go back to the story where Thor put the Moon back together. We deliberately wrote it in such a way as we did not necessarily state exactly what happened there. It was definitely written with the idea in mind that . . . here is an Asgardian talking to a kid, almost telling [the story] in terms of a legend, or a fable. And what might have been the reality is that . . . yeah, maybe Thor took the atomized Moon and put it back together. Or, it could have been . . . a big freakin' chunk blew off the Moon and Thor put it back, which is still pretty damn big.

RC: Which interpretation do you lean towards?

DAN JURGENS: I think it's somewhere in the middle, myself. I think there was a cosmic event that involved the Moon that could have had calamitous impact on Earth. The Moon was not totally and utterly destroyed. But legend, and the way people talk about Thor and his use of the Odin-power, and the way they would deal with it with children is . . . "Thor put it back together."

You know, it's like how we talk about Daniel Boone, or Davy Crocket, or George Washington and the cherry tree. So, did something happen there? Yeah. Is it as it's portrayed in the comic? Not necessarily. That's why we used splash pages [in the Moon issue] and different artists for each one-we wanted that inconsistent look so that people got the idea that, just as you had fifteen different artists imagining that story, so would you have kids imagining it in different ways.

RC: So you did not write Odin as a character capable of, say, killing galaxies?


RC: Then what were the limits of his power . . . planetary-level?

DAN JURGENS: They had to be . . . and I will say that consistently because we have seen Odin defeated so many times. The idea we were trying to get across is that the Odin-power made him among the most powerful of gods-certainly the most powerful Asgardian. But if we look at either Odin or Zeus, we see fallibility and we see a limit.

Dan Jurgens basically said that his vision of Thor, for example, could put the moon back together though of vague context (Just that the moon was in tatters and Thor rebuilt it physically), which is like multi-continental (Issue # for this?). Also he states that he doesn't write Odin as a galaxy killer and was moreso a planetary being. Now obviously, they are much stronger than this; Thor is like stellar or whatever and Odin is obviously a skyfather level galaxy popper, but this isn't about what the overall continuity shows their power as, this is about Jurgens' statement and why his interpretations of these comic characters aren't as impressive as hyped to be. I am looking at what Jurgens intended in the context of the interview to show that his interpretation of what Doomsday entailed wasn't a cosmic multidimensional threat ala the Anti-Monitor or Beyonders, but I digress. Now, why is is Jurgens' statements on Thor/Odin's power important? Because Jurgens compares his own interpretation of Thor with Superman:

RC: What do you think of the idea of Superman defeating Thor, which we recently saw in JLA/Avengers?

DAN JURGENS: No . . . not even possible. Even if you bring back Thor to his basic; self, the Thor of issue one of my run, he would beat Superman.

RC: Why's that?


RC: The "magic weakness" idea for Superman?


RC: In the books these days, the "magic weakness" is almost never there.

DAN JURGENS: I know. I know. Straight up? Superman is more powerful, but because of the magic weakness . . . but because of the magic component, Thor wins.

RC: In your opinion, is Superman is a lot more powerful than Thor?


RC: Wow. When you worked on DC Vs. Marvel and pitted Quicksilver against Flash, you guys had boosted Quicksilver up to the speed of sound while Flash was running at multiples of the speed of light or whatever . . . would you say that Superman is as many times more powerful than Thor or the Hulk as Flash is as many times faster than Quicksilver?


RC: Wouldn't that make Superman, like, millions of times more powerful than Thor?


So Superman is a million times above Thor, right? Wrong.

Dan Jurgens' later on admitted that he was (internally given audio transcripts showed no sign) chuckling at his claim Superman was a million times more powerful and clarified here:

Yes, in the exchange, I was asked if Superman was a million times more powerful than Thor. I said yes.

I also chuckled as I said it, a very important part of the response that did not translate into print. I don't blame Rich as he gave me the chance to edit the interview. Quite frankly, it never occurred to me that anyone would seriously think that statement was an accurate representation of my belief on the matter.

So... we screwed up.

Superman is NOT a million times more powerful than Thor. In my book, he is probably not even twice as powerful as Thor. Superman has more expansive powers than Thor, IMO, thanks to his vision powers, etc.

I also think they fight quite differently. Thor tends to be more of a brawny reactionary type, while Superman probably fights with a more strategic approach. Thor is more likely to cut loose with the full measure of his powers as he does not have the "dampers" on that power that Superman was raised with. Both qualities can be an advantage or disadvantage, depending on the circumstances.

If they fought ten times, neither would win all ten, or even seven, eight or nine battles, for that matter. Not anymore than the Miami Dolphins would beat the Jets ten games out of ten.

I don't know what Jurgens was thinking in the original interview, but the point is in his vision Superman is more versatile and tactical than Thor and thus his relative power gives him a massive advantage, making him effectively "a million times more powerful," but in raw power, Superman is comparable to Thor. Thor, however, in Jurgens' vision isn't what other authors had him to be and seems to be more of a tectonic-small moon level character. Odin himself only planetary; I understand they are much more powerful than this but I reiterate, my point here isn't to give a powerlevel to Superman (yet), it's to show Jurgens gave a powerlevel to Superman which is more elaborated on and relevant than a passing mention of multi-dimensional, which given context means moreso Doomsday is given access to resources that will let him spread his violence across the cosmos such as motherboxes and Boom Tubes. Darkseid himself isn't supposed to be a physical brawler and likely could outsmart and defeat Doomsday if he is prepared.

In conclusion the interview does not give a cosmically impressive vision for Doomsday. In fact, statements and scaling would conclude Doomsday and Superman were only tectonic-small moon level in Jurgens' vision (Which I will go to, because while I disagree with his view on Thor, he isn't wrong about Superman/Doomsday's power level)

So that goes through the interview, now let's go by scaling, because people need to realize something, aside for the one suneater feat from Time and Time again (Which is a whole can of worms that I would go into some other time, but it's implied he isn't really hit with the full force or brunt of the blast, if any, due to a special matter spread across his body which absorbs the energy and dumps him through time as a chain reaction), Superman wasn't as impressive in the 80s to mid 90s. Hell; his first not-scaling and not-statement (Which he did get those) feat he had which was solidly indisputably above planet level wouldn't be until after he trained with Mongul II in preparation for Imperiex. Soon afterwards; he would push the Mageddon gears which OBD got at like large star level, VSB redid to like dwarf star level. Characters were weaker at the time; and aside for Green Lanterns (Who OBD seems to have established as way above the likes of Superman(?)), planetary feats were basically nonexistent or totally out of context (Such as in the Earth Stealers where Superman had the mass of the earth nullified to push it and noted he couldn't do it otherwise). Some feats around the time between Death of Superman and Zero Hour are:

  • Could withstand being in the Sun's core (Seems to be in the gigatons range)
  • In the far past, some Green Lantern's strongest unrestricted attack "has the power of multiple hurricanes" and blew him across buildings and mountains. (Nothing suggests this was a stronger GL or anything IIRC. Later, Doomsday did wipe out multiple GLs and even fought a Guardian, but he had a GL ring and was noted for having an unnatural level of willpower)
  • Radiant's final blast that originally killed Doomsday on Calaton wiped out 1/5 of the planet's surface
  • Doomsday's awakening causing seismic activity detected from thousands of miles away
  • Superman's first clash with Doomsday "shaking the earth to its core" with their final blows
  • Superman fighting and equaling Lobo who blasted off a chunk of a planet, rendering it desolate and cracked apart, but not fully destroyed. (I got this to be moon to small planet level)

  • Cap = 138x70 pixels = 154.738489071 pixels = 2141.8026244242 km, 3008.0915680201 km, or 7855.2901503693 km
  • 251 pixels = 3474.2 km, 4879.4 km, or 12,742 km
  • Distance = 180x53 pixels = 187.640613941 pixels = 2597.2152229236 km, 3647.7036321264 km, or 9525.5645531324 km

  • Low end = 6.9178e+8 km^3 = 2.3105452e21 kg
  • Mid end = 3.4267e+9 km^3 = 1.85967009e22 kg
  • High end = 3.4129e+10 km^3 = 1.88187306e23 kg

  • Moon Gravity = 1.62 m/s^2
  • Mercury Gravity = 3.7 m/s^2
  • Earth Gravity = 9.80665 m/s^2

  • (2.3105452e21 kg)(1.62 m/s^2)(2597.2152229236 km) = 2.32351643 exatons of tnt
  • (1.85967009e22 kg)(3.7 m/s^2)(3647.7036321264 km) = 59.9881543 exatons of tnt
  • (1.88187306e23 kg)(9.80665 m/s^2)(9525.5645531324 km) = 4.20155496 zettatons of tnt

  • Superman easily throwing out a giant ship the size of a small moon into deep space
  • Superman smashing apart an asteroid big enough to demolish Earth
These are the feats between Death of Superman and Zero Hour (Which I will get back to discussing later with Darkseid). Now, I admit, it is coincidental these feats (Which range from country to small planet level) are comparable in range to how Jurgens visioned Thor who he said Superman is comparable to, but I digress. These were the feats at the time and they are surprisingly consistent. Again, the only prior feats before this are a likely hyperbolic statement by Starbreaker which had his attacks with the force of a nova (Not a supernova, nova, which is 1e+37 joules or large planet level) and Superman's Time and Time Again Suneater feat which I don't believe he took the brunt due to external circumstances. Otherwise, we have much lesser feats from Superman and co (I will be ignoring Green Lantern feats since it seems to be believed here they far surpass Superman?):
  • Superman got hit by a 40 megaton thermonuclear bomb and said he felt like he might as well be dying (Admittedly super early on, later improved)
  • Superman lifted a mountain sized entity which could crush Metropolis
  • Takes an explosion capable of leveling Metropolis (Almost exactly 100 megatons going by nukemap and the fact Metropolis is 125 square miles)
  • Superman managed to not be splattered, although he was stomped badly, by Eradicator who had the ability to tap into the power output of the Sun (3.828e+26 watts or continental) and create sunspots (I calculated it to be in the low exatons at most, maybe only in the mid-high petatons)
So we can see Superman did get marginally better feats, but there is a reason for it and it wasn't out o nowhere. He became much stronger after absorbing Eradicator during Reign of the Supermen, much like he said multiple times in the storylines before Zero Hour, but speaking of Zero Hour, I will now need to explain why Darkseid was so unimpressive.

Darkseid, as I will explain, has 3 incarnations: His emanations when boomtubing onto Earth/out of Fourth World | His boomtube upsized "True self" in Fourth World | His "True" true form, the Godhead

The Godheads are elaborated on by Grant Morrison in this interview:

Where he said:

Are the regular folks in the DCU aware of the New Gods? Does a Renee Montoya know about Metron or Big Barda?
MORRISON: They don't. They can feel the influence of them, but they don't know about them. Superman, Batman and the Justice League know about the New Gods because they've met them, but we've never really seen the New Gods in their full power before. We've seen their actions. The DC superheroes see the New Gods as other superheroes in the way that Orion or Barda can join the Justice League. They've never understood that what they really are are f---ing gods. This story's about the first time Darkseid actually manifests on the planet. Everything we've ever seen before has been kind of projections from the world of the New Gods and for the first time we're seeing them in their full power. And it's like what would happen if a god appeared on the planet. Galactus is one god. This is a whole bunch of them that's how bad it is.

As seen here, Morrison plainly states that the characters have never actually witnessed their true forms. Then whenever they went to Apokolipse or New Genesis via Boom Tube, what did they experience? They experienced simply a "truer" or "greater" Emanation of Darkseid, not the real deal.

We are given a rough design of what the Godhead looks like in Final Crisis, and it is far more abstract. Meanwhile Fourth World Emanations are simply shown as huge, making planets look like marbles. We also are given confirmation in Final Crisis these boomtubed Fourth World bodies are also just bodies representing the Godheads, and not the Godhead itself in Final Crisis.

This mean Doomsday was fighting a Fourth World Emanation, a husk, and not the true Godhead here who is the real multiversal deal. And these emanations are just as susceptible to crises and retcons as any other character:
  • Darkseid was horrified of the events of the original Crisis and hid Fourth World/Apokolipse from the Anti-Monitor's wrath
  • Highfather was scared that the events of Zero hour would affect them too
  • Darkseid joined forces with the JLA during Our Worlds at War because Imperiex planned on causing a universal wide event
  • After the Infinite Crisis, multiple new Apokolipses and Fourth Worlds popped up for the other 52 universes in the Orrery of Worlds
This means Doomsday was fighting a pre-Zero Hour Darkseid, and we know these crises can power up or depower characters:
  • Characters who survived the original Crisis on Infinite Earths and now lived on New Earth, such as Hal Jordan, were not nearly as powerful as they used to be
  • Prior to Zero Hour, Superman stated the speed of light was way above him when he fought a Pocket Universe Kryptonian, and also that he couldn't deal with planetary forces in the Planet Stealers. Yet, in the Year One Comics which were soft reboot retconned unto characters' backstories after Zero Hour, Superman very early on (Around the time of the Man of Steel comics from 1986) escaped a black hole and withstood a magical being with the strength of a planet.
  • Prior to Infinite Crisis; Superman was performing mostly planetary to dwarf star level feats. After Infinite Crisis and he got his powers back in Up, Up, and Away, he noted his powers were sharper and different, and then he was capable of lifting Earth level mass without assistance, dealing with supernova level explosions and be comparable to Blue Lanterns who could recharge stars. Also a lot more pre-crisis stories such as For The Man Who Has Everything were rendered canon.
So my point is this was a pre-Zero Hour Darkseid, who was just as susceptible to crises with his emanations as Superman would be, and crises are shown to affect characters' power levels. So it would not be radical to believe an emanation for Darksied pre-Zero Hour was just weaker, weak enough to scale with the feats range at the time of 1993-1994 which was tectonic to small planet level, ignoring some later Green Lanterns who had planetary feats.

In conclusion:
  • Dan Jurgens' usage of the word multidimensional is vague and the best interpretation given how Doomsday operates isn't one of destroying dimensions and universes, but potentially using the spacefaring technologies of the Fourth World to raise the scope of his reign of terror across dimensions
  • Jurgens doesn't envision Darkseid as a physical brawler and is actually weaker than Superman, just his cunning and stratagem gives him the upper hand. This would translate to how he wrote Hunter/Prey.
  • Going by his interview, his vision at the time of Thor and transitively Superman (given a later clarification) isn't one of stellar or even planetary levels, but one who could rebuild the moon together. He didn't see characters like these to be truly cosmic in scope. This is just his opinion, and overall Thor and Odin are way above this obviously, but it shows he didn't intend H/P Doomsday to even be a skyfather or even high herald level being as commonly interpreted across forums.
  • Superman and Doomsday at the time of Hunter/Prey were consistently tectonic to small planet level; the only other feats prior which may prove otherwise are from Green Lanterns who are on a league of their own, and a feat which is dubious given Superman was being influenced by a foreign matter that absorbed the energy and not him
  • Darkseid must have been fighting with a Fourth World Emanation, and not as the Godhead, and these are simply up-sized with Boomtubes and not necessarily transcendental like Godheads. They are also susceptible to crises which have shown to change the power-levels of characters, so it can be assumed the likes of Darkseid's emanations were weaker pre-Zero Hour and weren't at the heights seen later on/