Futility of prayer.

I always thought human prayer was a silly notion for those faith-based practitioners to indulge themselves in. Do I believe they actually believed their prayers were answered... idk.
Sometimes people just want to pray (i think anyways) in order to hope for a better outcome. Can you call hope futile?

Should humans be more pessimistic without prayer than optimistic with it?

Even if it were a lie and has no benefit; logically I see no harm in another person praying for the sake of prayer.

Hope has its uses. It can also be damaging, however.

The calmness one finds in prayer can be found in other ways.

No, the futility I refer to is when people honestly believe their prayer will make a difference.

How many people have gotten their hopes up, because they prayed, just to be devastated by it not coming true?

Well since this blog is about religion/theism.. I find it unimportant whether or not god is all knowing/omniscient.
Since I think the motive for prayer is not to ask and expect actions. It would seem illogical for a person to automatically think their prayer would be answered.
Prayer is a selfish request and need for the person engaging in prayer. Yes they may have "altruistic" reasons for prayers sometimes and then more personal "wishes" for themselves; yet it always goes back to the self (their self).
Now what I wish to ask is: What is wrong with the self-serving purpose prayers can bring?
you said hope was damaging, can you elaborate?

No, the futility I refer to is when people honestly believe their prayer will make a difference.

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So your problem is not with prayer but with faith and belief?

I don't think people use prayer in that sort of way... but I have not prayed all that much. Or my prayers if I have them seem unconventional to myself.

Hope can be damaging. It is not always damaging, as I said, it can be useful.

The problem with hope is that it can set you up for a greater fall. Never heard of the phrase 'don't get your hopes up'?

As an aside, before I go to this next portion, let me define futile, as I used it - serving no useful purpose.

Prayer, especially the requesting kind, and not the meditative kind, can get one's hopes up. Get them to expect something to happen, if they truly believe in the power of prayer. It can be devastating when those prayers don't come true. A person praying for a relative's mental illness to go away, and discovering that it will not, would have better spent that energy trying to accept what cannot currently be changed.

I have heard the phrase/saying, dont get your hopes up.
However I do not have the same feelings/reaction you seem to about hope and its "devastation" it brings.

In my opinion if you are disappointed with hope its not like its going to break you. Unless you are a real fucking pussy.
There is another saying about the harder you fall etc... but I don't want to use it. Just pointing it out that I could use it.

As for the futile non-useful purpose that prayer serves... I do not believe people expect something to happen when they pray. I do not see someone praying and being devastated beyond belief when it does not come true.
About the mental illness scenario: A person who prays for someone with mental illness doesn't imply that they do not accept something that cannot be changed. Its more so a desperate need to cling onto the possibilities over the probabilities they are faced with.
This can be perpetuated by say; rare or extreme cases where someone overcame their odds. (not with mental illness alone but i mean in general other things like someone who was told that they couldnt walk again and being able to sometime in the future through some "miraculous" reason)
These sort of circumstances allow people to carry faith, and I am not sure its entirely bad.

I will agree that people should be realistic to a degree.

I do not think it is wasted energy to have tried prayer (in your scenario) nor do I think that the person praying should/would believe in the prayer being answered. Can't people have empty wishes. Even if they are illogical?
I suppose I can see the downtrodden clinging to their faith (if they have it) over what seems more realistic. Yet it is a tolerable offense to a certain degree, isn't it?
To believe it is unneccessary for yourself is ok too, but I don't see why others would have to find it unnecessary for the "weak".
Maybe it is just a weakness since they cannot face reality.
is your problem with the "weakness" of the human soul?

actually i am not sure about that one saying... i think i dont remember it right. is there a saying about the harder you fall the higher you bounce.

Is it so difficult to grasp that people are looking for a bit of comfort in trying times?
Always taking people so literally...

This is why I have such disdain for most atheists and so-called skeptics. Most aren't questioning anything of use, just trying to find flaws in people where there are none.

pfft: The problem is that many DO expect something to really occur when they pray.

Robo-Pope: Prayer is absolutely useless, it exists to let people do nothing and feel like they've done something. The comfort can be found in other ways.

I agree with robo-pope that you are intentionally looking for flaws with faith and faith-based religion/religious practices and repeatedly questioning the same useless things.
All I hear is the same bullshit over and over. I was hoping for an actual discussion with someone who was willing to see the other possibilities. Not someone too pig-headed to change their mind or opinion because they want to be right.

you do realize you can practice atheism without having to tear apart christianity and other religions with your one-tracked literal mind. You should find your own comfort in other ways...
There is no harm in practicing religious tolerance.

Robo-Pope: Prayer is absolutely useless, it exists to let people do nothing and feel like they've done something. The comfort can be found in other ways.

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Heh, you feel like putting us in terms of pure logic? We're not purely logical beings. If we were, such concepts as "fun" and "happiness" wouldn't exist. And I kind of like my fun and happiness, thank you very much. Please stop trying to create a monotone world.
People are free to look for comfort wherever it is found, and I have a lot of respect for that. Some seek company; others solitude; others, a higher power.

And here's the kicker. "Let people do nothing and feel like they've done something," you say? Well, what have you accomplished here? I'm betting you feel like you're enlightening the world, but really, you've just insulted a large number of people for no actual gain. You're not changing anyone. You're not helping anything. You're just ranting because you don't like that people don't all agree with your way of viewing the world.

I'm not attacking a strawman. 1 in 2 of Americans believe that prayer can bring back patients that doctors have given up on.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26272687/

Think of the devastation.

Looking for a miracle
Sise recalled a teenager severely injured in a gang beating who died soon afterward at his hospital.
The mother "absolutely did not want to withdraw" medical equipment despite the severity of her child's brain injuries, which ensured she would never wake up, Sise said. "The mom was playing religious tapes in the room, and obviously was very focused on looking for a miracle."

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If these people were to try to move onto acceptance, rather than futilely praying and bringing their hopes up...

you do realize you can practice atheism without having to tear apart christianity and other religions with your one-tracked literal mind. You should find your own comfort in other ways...
There is no harm in practicing religious tolerance.

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You do realize that you've pretty much just stumbled into my journal, right? I use this blog to put my mind to text, so to speak. If others read it, then so be it. I may not convince anyone of anything. It wasn't particularly my intent here.

you do realize you can practice atheism without having to tear apart christianity and other religions with your one-tracked literal mind. You should find your own comfort in other ways...
There is no harm in practicing religious tolerance

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Considering the place, a lot of this is kinda ironic.

a blog ,a thread, a conversation, a journal, etc. i dont see the difference. Thoughts are thoughts but they are a constant and not concrete. If a person has a thought its only natural that someone else will engage them on said thoughts. I just read the blog and engaged.
I figured most bloggers like when people engage them or initiate a conversation of sorts.

pfft: Didn't say that I didn't want others to engage me. I'd have turned off comments if that were the case.

But, it doesn't change that this is primarily just where I vent my opinions.

I'm not attacking a strawman. 1 in 2 of Americans believe that prayer can bring back patients that doctors have given up on.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26272687/

Think of the devastation.

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None at all. They do not in fact hurt anyone by believing someone can survive when all hope seems lost (which is the point they are at when doctors give up).
What's really cool is when they do come back. Not because of prayer, of course. But it has happened, and it will happen again.

If these people were to try to move onto acceptance, rather than futilely praying and bringing their hopes up...

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It's part of their way of coping, kiddo. I don't believe it's your place to try to change the way people deal with things. The idea of the stages of grief is that people must go through them in their own way before they can reach acceptance. You can't tell them to just accept it already. The human mind doesn't work that way.

Considering the place, a lot of this is kinda ironic.

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I believe your definition of irony needs work, sir.

I don't see how denying and getting their hopes up helps them cope.

I don't see how denying and getting their hopes up helps them cope.

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Then you haven't seen nearly as much of the world as you think you have.